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Author Topic: places without CCD  (Read 28436 times)
LivelyHive
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« on: July 15, 2012, 07:03:40 PM »

From reading the other posts in this forum, it seems that USA and Europe have been hardest hit by CCD. Australia seems to be free from both CCD, and varroa.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/20/96181/are-australian-honeybees-behind.html  - explains that Australia is generally free of CCD
http://www.unep.org/dewa/Portals/67/pdf/Global_Bee_Colony_Disorder_and_Threats_insect_pollinators.pdf - says that Australia is generally free of varroa, also addresses varroa losses worldwide
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/06/14/stung-by-bees.html - suggests that CCD has also reached China, although unclear whether losses are from other sources
I haven't read much about South America, Africa, Asia or the Middle East. Does anyone know if these regions have also been affected by CCD?

Thanks always!
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 07:50:05 PM by Robo » Logged

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bernsad
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2012, 08:50:31 PM »

True LivelyHive, we don't seem to have CCD here in Aus., nobody loses colonies at such a scale over here. And we don't have Varroa yet. It's probably only a matter of time before mites arrive here, if they aren't already and we just haven't found them yet. Varroa is right on our doorstep. New Zealand is badly affected by it and they are just 4 hours by plane from here, but even closer, Asian Honey Bees, who are natural carriers of mites, are right through Papua New Guinea and on a number of islands throughout the Torres Strait, which are almost a stones throw from the mainland. We have had a number of Asian Honey Bee invasions over the past few years that have been eradicated but I think the federal government has suspended the program for monitoring and the job is being left up to the local beeks along the north coast. Very disappointing! It's not a matter of if they get here but when.
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Finski
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« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 05:07:17 PM »

From reading the other posts in this forum, it seems that USA and Europe have been hardest hit by CCD.

USA is only place where CCD exists. It is not in Canada,  neither in Europe.

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Stromnessbees
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« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 07:17:15 PM »

CCD is not caused by varroa but by neonicotinoids.

There is a lot of CCD in Europe as well, but the officials are better at covering it up than those in the US.  rolleyes

Certain agricultural areas of NZ have had cases of CCD, too.
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Finski
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« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2013, 08:31:03 AM »

CCD is not caused by varroa but by neonicotinoids.

There is a lot of CCD in Europe as well, but the officials are better at covering it up than those in the US.  rolleyes

Certain agricultural areas of NZ have had cases of CCD, too.

you are wrong

and Ccd is not caused by neo*.*

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Stromnessbees
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« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2013, 05:12:44 PM »

CCD is not caused by varroa but by neonicotinoids.

There is a lot of CCD in Europe as well, but the officials are better at covering it up than those in the US.  rolleyes

Certain agricultural areas of NZ have had cases of CCD, too.

you are wrong

and Ccd is not caused by neo*.*

.

Finman, I am not wrong, I have read all the up to date literature on the topic and seen CCD repeatedly with my own eyes.
The connection to neonics is obvious.

I have seen you posting on every forum possible, usually your posts are in the thousands. Strange!

I wonder how you can just declare that I am wrong. I believe neonics are hardly used in Finland ...

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Finski
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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2013, 01:04:56 AM »




Finman, I am not wrong, I have read all the up to date literature on the topic and seen CCD repeatedly with my own eyes.
The connection to neonics is obvious.

I have seen you posting on every forum possible, usually your posts are in the thousands. Strange!



I write on 2 beekeeping forum.   Not more.
Europe has its own bee disease researching, and no CCD has been found. Many other reseason are why so much hives.

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Finski
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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2013, 03:53:01 AM »

.
There are many kind of vanishing bees and winter losses. Even USA does not know what are reasons that healthy hives die during active season.
It is still more or less mystery. Many scientics say that it derives from starvation of bees when they are collected to southern fields to wait almond and citrus pollination.

Interesting was a reseach. 3 beekeepers (each 20 hives) start to migrate hives from pollinating task to another, and during that 10 months duty 57% of hives died. At once, when migration started, the amount of brood frames started to go down. It went to 1/3. The researchers say that they do not exactly know what happened in hives.

Here is a report from Europe

Some researchers are eager to find CCD in every country because they want money to their projects.

This is one of newest report.

A number of pests and diseases have been demonstrated as being implicated with colony losses. The
major pests/diseases are Varroa destructor, American foulbrood, European foulbrood, Nosema spp., honey
bee viruses, and Acarine mite (Acarapis woodi). Varroa has irreversibly changed the Deformed Wing Virus
(DWV) viral landscape across the world. DWV is now considered one of the key players in colony losses
in Europe.
Future threats and non-native invasive species are also of high interest, like the Small Hive
Beetle (Aethina tumida), Tropilaelaps spp. (another parasitic mite) and the Asian Hornet (Vespa velutina).
Overall, pesticide-related bee monitoring activities can be a helpful tool to assess potential side effects to
bees on a large-scale level and under realistic field conditions, which can be relevant where the regular
risk assessment still contains uncertainties.

PDF]
     Bee health in Europe - Facts & figures 2013 - OPERA Research ...

operaresearch.eu/.../20130122162456_BEEHEAL...

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Stromnessbees
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2013, 04:15:26 AM »

...
     Bee health in Europe - Facts & figures 2013 - OPERA Research ...

operaresearch.eu/.../20130122162456_BEEHEAL...


The 'research' you are quoting is mostly funded by Bayer, which happens to be the main manufacturer of neonicotinoid pesticides, which independent researchers have identified as the cause of CCD.
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Stromnessbees
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2013, 05:00:57 AM »


I write on 2 beekeeping forum.   Not more.



So you are here (Beemaster)

+ NZ Beek Forum
http://www.nzbees.net/forum/members/finman.159/

+ 'Beekeeping Forum'
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/member.php?u=157

- that's at least 3 active memberships.

I see you got banned here:
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?200933-To-follow-levels-of-varroa-without-calculation&p=146119&highlight=bees#post146119

... and I am sure I have seen you elsewhere, too.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 05:19:44 AM by Stromnessbees » Logged
Finski
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2013, 05:04:24 AM »

.
Good heavens!

carry on. You will find more.

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buzzbee
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2013, 09:14:41 AM »

A lot of the studies in the US showed the largest chemical contaminants in the wax was fluvalinate and camophous. Beekeeper chemicals for varroa control.
 Pyrethroids in this study seem to be just as likely a cause.
Originally it was blamed on cell towers and radio waves.We need to stay tuned.
http://www.beeccdcap.uga.edu/documents/CAPArticle16.html
Stress on the colonies is also a contributing factor. Migratory keepers lose as a percentage ,more bees than the hobbiest to the symptoms of ccd.These colonies never get a rest period,being trucked from one end of the nation to the other, constant feeding to keep brood rearing going and most likely a steady diet of fumagillin and anti varroa treatments.They  have to do what is necessary to keep these bees alive as dead bees do not make money.
  Most hobbiests bees die in the hive. Not a ccd symptom. Most likely beekeeper error.
And if you do a little looking there have been reports of fall dwindling for a long time.Not a completely new problem,but when it hits guys with a couple thousand hives it gets a lot more attention than when a backyard keeper loses 50 percent of his hives(which may be just one of two).
If you do away with the neonics, I doubt all instances will  disappear. In Finland they kill varroa with oxalic acid rather than fluvalinate and camophous.This does not leave residual in the comb.
If the neonics cause this, how do we explain the hives that thrive despite the exposure? I'm guessing they had at least one less stress factor.
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2013, 09:21:13 AM »

Livelyhives link from above:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/20/96181/are-australian-honeybees-behind.html
shows that bees imported from a country where they have not been exposed to varroa and exposed to asian bee viruses may have impacted the migratory keepers in the almonds and spread the symptoms via contaminated colonies on flat bed trucks.
Do not ring the alarm bell, it is just another possibility among hundreds.
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Stromnessbees
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2013, 11:30:28 AM »


A lot of the studies in the US showed the largest chemical contaminants in the wax was fluvalinate and camophous. Beekeeper chemicals for varroa control.
 Pyrethroids in this study seem to be just as likely a cause.



It is understandable, that fluvalinate and coumaphos are found at high levels in hives, as that's where they are applied.

However, the toxicity of neonics is thousands of times higher than of those other chemicals, and they can affect colonies at doses that can hardly be detected in hives.

I used pyrethroids on my bees against varroa, and there was no observable problem at all, they were thriving.


Quote

Originally it was blamed on cell towers and radio waves.We need to stay tuned.
http://www.beeccdcap.uga.edu/documents/CAPArticle16.html



The link doesn't work.
The story about the cell towers was a red herring and meant to confuse the issue.
I am not a fan of these towers, but they are clearly not linked to the mass colony deaths at the moment.


Quote

Stress on the colonies is also a contributing factor. Migratory keepers lose as a percentage ,more bees than the hobbiest to the symptoms of ccd.These colonies never get a rest period,being trucked from one end of the nation to the other, constant feeding to keep brood rearing going and most likely a steady diet of fumagillin and anti varroa treatments.They  have to do what is necessary to keep these bees alive as dead bees do not make money.



Stress is not good for bees, but migratory beekeeping has not changed drastically during the time when CCD appeared.
What changed was that Clothianidin, one of the new neocis, was introduced to the states.
Clothianidin is several times more toxic to bees than Imidacloprid.


Quote

Most hobbiests bees die in the hive. Not a ccd symptom. Most likely beekeeper error.



I read more and more reports of hobby beekeepers where their colonies have suddenly dwindled away in winter, especially from the US but also from Europe. This is typical for CCD.


Quote

And if you do a little looking there have been reports of fall dwindling for a long time.Not a completely new problem,but when it hits guys with a couple thousand hives it gets a lot more attention than when a backyard keeper loses 50 percent of his hives(which may be just one of two).



Fall dwindling could be down to varroa or problems with the queen, but in both cases the reason for the dwindling can easily be identified.
With CCD, the majority of the bees leaves within a short period during late autumn/winter.
It was made quite clear by those who examined CCD hives, that they had never seen anything like it before.


Quote

If you do away with the neonics, I doubt all instances will  disappear. In Finland they kill varroa with oxalic acid rather than fluvalinate and camophous.This does not leave residual in the comb.



In France neonics were banned from flowering crops and the major bee deaths stopped.


Quote

If the neonics cause this, how do we explain the hives that thrive despite the exposure? I'm guessing they had at least one less stress factor.



I take these stories of hives thriving next to neonic fields with a lot of caution.

Maybe, if it's just Imidacloprid used on OSR then the colonies can get over the exposure during the summer months, only showing some queen failures and increased susceptibility to varroa and nosema.

But colonies exposed to Clothianidin from maize/corn at midsummer will often succumb to CCD in late autumn/winter.

I have seen a whole apiary of ten hives dead, they had access to clothianidin treated corn for the first time in the summer before.
Nothing else had changed, no heavy varroa, no migration. Everything looked perfect, strong colonies with young queens.
By midwinter the hives were empty of bees, with tiny clusters including the queen left behind, and plenty of stores untouched.

 Sad

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Stromnessbees
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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2013, 11:35:52 AM »

Livelyhives link from above:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/20/96181/are-australian-honeybees-behind.html
shows that bees imported from a country where they have not been exposed to varroa and exposed to asian bee viruses may have impacted the migratory keepers in the almonds and spread the symptoms via contaminated colonies on flat bed trucks.
Do not ring the alarm bell, it is just another possibility among hundreds.


Whilst we should be careful not to introduce any more diseases, I think that this one is hyped up in order to confuse the CCD story even more.

When examined closely, no link between these viruses and CCD could be detected.
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2013, 12:49:42 PM »

My link does work:
From the article:
"Pyrethroids bioaccumulate in wax and bees due to their high fat solubility in contrast to neonicotinoids.  In wax, 312 of 340 samples contained pyrethroids versus two with imidacloprid and four with thiacloprid, with the average pyrethroid residue content > 64,000 times higher than the total neonicotinoid. While fluvalinate prevailed (307 detections), many other detections of esfenvalerate (50), fenpropathrin (43), bifenthrin (37), cypermethrin (28), cyfluthrin (26), pyrethrins (16), cyhalothrin (13), deltamethrin (Cool and permethrin (Cool were found. A similar analysis for residues in 241 bee, brood and queen samples showed only four samples with neonicotinoids, two from bee kill incidences correlated with imidacloprid and thiamethoxam/clothianidin, respectively. The two other samples contained low amounts acetamiprid and thiamethoxam. Even with the higher neonicotinoid residues due to bee kills, a dozen pyrethroids distributed within 70% of our bee samples had a mean residue (non-detects = 0 ppb) of 357 ppb, 178 times greater than the 2 ppb for the neonicotinoids. Pyrethroid prevalence and persistence in the hive thus likely has more consequences for colony survival than the water-soluble neonicotinoids. The only other major insecticide detected in our hive samples with high toxicity was the organophosphate chlorpyrifos (LD50 = 122 ng/bee) in 42.6% of samples with an average detection of 36.3 ppb. This OP degrades more rapidly and is less persistent than pyrethroids. However, higher residues of the less toxic neonicotinoids acetamiprid and thiacloprid (Iwasa et al., 2004) or of pyrethroids (Pilling and Jepson, 1993; Johnson et al., 2011) in pollens with even higher amounts of fungicides may have considerable impact on bee health via their synergistic combinations. Pyrethroids disable foraging of bees at levels of 9 ng permethrin per bee (90 ppb) Cox et al. 1984) and 2.5 ng deltamethrin per bee (vanDame et al. 1995), which is of a potency similar to that of imidacloprid."
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2013, 12:51:27 PM »

Not sure where the smileys came from,possiblty the punctuation in the article interpreted by forum software as smiley.
And I am sure this article is not to confuse the ccd argument.
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2013, 01:38:11 PM »

As far as the link to Australia:



Maryann_Frazier.WMV

with Maryann Frazier of Penn State at 24 minutes

Israel Acute Paralisys Virus
Nosema Ceranae
Are found in a larger number of CCD hives (83 percent)

IAPV was found in all the Australian packages.

Kelleybees take on CCD:
https://kelleybees.com/blog/2012/10/our-stand-on-re-usingre-running-stories-ccd/

Australia did not suffer from CCD so much,but most CCD cases in the US had this virus. A definite correlation.
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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2013, 02:46:37 PM »

http://www.extension.org/pages/65034/neonicotinoid-seed-treatments-and-honey-bee-health
Updated January 2013
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Stromnessbees
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« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2013, 03:05:05 PM »

...
Even with the higher neonicotinoid residues due to bee kills, a dozen pyrethroids distributed within 70% of our bee samples had a mean residue (non-detects = 0 ppb) of 357 ppb, 178 times greater than the 2 ppb for the neonicotinoids. Pyrethroid prevalence and persistence in the hive thus likely has more consequences for colony survival than the water-soluble neonicotinoids.
...


The second sentence there cannot be deducted from the first sentence.

Just because there is more of the pyrethroids, doesn't mean that they are a bigger problem for the bees than the neonics.

Wikipedia might not be the most wonderful source of infromation, but we can use it for a rough guideline on toxicity:

Coumaphos[19]    Checkmite    Organophosphate       This is an insecticide that is used inside the beehive to combat varroa mites and small hive beetles, which are parasites of the honey bee. Overdoses can lead to bee poisoning.    Relatively nontoxic (acute LD50 > 100μg/bee) to adult bees.

Imidacloprid    Confidor, Gaucho, Kohinor, Admire, Advantage, Merit, Confidor, Hachikusan, Amigo, SeedPlus (Chemtura Corp.), Monceren GT, Premise, Prothor, and Winner    Neonicotinoid       (see also Imidacloprid effects on bee population)Banned in France since 1999    highly toxic (acute LD50 < 2μg/bee)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide_toxicity_to_bees

Anyway, beekeepers have been using coumaphos and fluvalinate for a long time in their hives and not observed CCD, while the introduction of Clothianidin to the US was followed by the first reports of CCD.
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