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 Author Topic: Square Hive Math / Number of Frames  (Read 1187 times)
Sour Kraut
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Location: Jacksonville IL 62650

 « on: June 28, 2012, 03:21:48 PM »

Good afternoon all;

Reading about square / deep hives.

I am going to put together some square x 9=5/8 deep boxes over the winter; the theroy is that using those two-deep gives room for a nearly spherical brood nest area.

So far so good.

But then I read that you can have:

13 with 1-1/4 spacing; 12 with 1-3/8 spacing, and 11 with 1-1/2 spacing.

To me the math doesn'd add up

A square box 19-3/4 outside = 18-1/4 inside

13 frames @ 1-3/8 each is 17-7/8 which would leave 3/8 left-over to be divided at each side and have a bee-space of 3/8 between side frames and side of box.

Am I mis-reading something or am I not 'getting it' somehow ?

Thick hide here, have no fear of dented ego.......

Thanks to all in advance

Gary
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Jim 134
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 « Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 06:11:51 PM »

Good afternoon all;

Reading about square / deep hives.

I am going to put together some square x 9=5/8 deep boxes over the winter; the theroy is that using those two-deep gives room for a nearly spherical brood nest area.

So far so good.

But then I read that you can have:

13 with 1-1/4 spacing; 12 with 1-3/8 spacing, and 11 with 1-1/2 spacing.

To me the math doesn'd add up

A square box 19-3/4 outside = 18-1/4 inside

13 frames @ 1-3/8 each is 17-7/8 which would leave 3/8 left-over to be divided at each side and have a bee-space of 3/8 between side frames and side of box.

Am I mis-reading something or am I not 'getting it' somehow ?

Thick hide here, have no fear of dented ego.......

Thanks to all in advance

Gary

Have you look at Dadant hives AKA Jumbo hives

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,34989.0.html

In 2010 you still could get the Dadant frames & foundation but you need to call them

BEE HAPPY Jim 134
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Sour Kraut
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Location: Jacksonville IL 62650

 « Reply #2 on: June 29, 2012, 06:45:07 AM »

Yes, I read the entire thing end to end.

I like the ideas presented.

My observation is that the math ( # of frames @ spacing 'X') mdoes not hold up under scrutiny

13 frames @ 1-3/8 spacing = 17-7/8

So the box should hold 13 frames @ 1-3/8, not 12 as some have stated.

and, for what its worth, 12 @ 1-1/2, not 11

and 14 @ 1-1/4, not 13

That's all, just seeing if anyone else is thinking the same thing; or perhaps I'm missing something obvious

Gary
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Jim 134
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 « Reply #3 on: June 29, 2012, 08:18:19 AM »

The last time I have seeing Jumbo hives being use it had 12 frames.I do not know the frame size.     I was 10 or 12 years old at the time.   Old times set in

BEE HAPPY Jim 134
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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
Chinese Proverb

"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
John F. Kennedy
Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA. http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/
Michael Bush
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 « Reply #4 on: June 29, 2012, 10:06:57 AM »

What people usually miss in the math is that you need a MINIMUM space of one full beespace in addition to the frames to do that half of the beespace on each end that would have come from the facing frame that is not there.  And that is only minimum.  Usually we have a little extra so we can get the first frame out.  A ten frame Langstroth, if you didn't take into account the other half of the beespace for the outside frames would be:
13.75" inside
With those half beepaces added it would be:
14.125" inside
But actually a ten frame Langstroth is:
14.75" inside
Which is 5/8" larger than that minimum.

So the formula for a hive with the same excess as a ten frame Langstroth for standard frames would be:
(NumberOfFrames X FrameWidth) + 1"

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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Sour Kraut
House Bee

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Location: Jacksonville IL 62650

 « Reply #5 on: June 29, 2012, 03:48:37 PM »

OK, that makes sense

Guess I'll get my local metal working place to make me some metal frame spacers to assure proper spacing then

About 1-15/32 center to center with the extra on the ends ought to do it for 12 frames

1.46875 x 12 = 17.625 thst leaves 5/8 left over for 'wiggle room' on the sides

Thank you !

G
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