Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
December 18, 2014, 12:07:37 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: hot here can I take off cover?  (Read 1687 times)
LoriMNnice
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 232


Location: minnesota


« on: June 28, 2012, 12:48:02 AM »

It's hot here can I take off telesoping cover and leave off on the hot days and just leave on inner cover? I could staple some screen over the inner cover hole so there is no robbing etc.
Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 06:27:02 AM »

.
It helps nothing.

Bees take care their heat if out temp is not over 40C.

If you arrange shadow on the hive wall, sun will not heat the wood so much it does.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
tefer2
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2281

Location: Kalamazoo,MI


« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2012, 08:06:45 AM »

It's hot here too. You could try some all season inner covers from Honeyrun Apiaries. We also use screened inner covers under the top. I don't think I would leave the top cover off cause it helps reflect some of the heat off the top of hive.
Logged
Lone
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 1080


Location: North Queensland


« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2012, 08:24:20 AM »

Lori,  why don't you just take off the inner cover?

Lone
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13963


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2012, 08:38:02 AM »

Keep in mind that once the outside temperature exceeds 93 F the bees have to COOL the hive.  How would you like it if someone left the door open when it was 100 F and the air conditioner was running?
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Intheswamp
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1486

Location: South Central Alabama - Zone 8A


WWW
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2012, 10:00:22 AM »

Removing the outer cover could very well make it HOTTER inside the hive...  The solar gain will be directly on the inner cover heating it up hotter than if it was shadowed by the top cover and would turn it (inner cover) into something similar to the broiler element in your oven.  Even though not much air movement in there the air space between the two helps retard the heat gain.  But, there are many folks in hot areas that use migratory covers so the bees apparently can deal with that type of heat...to a degree.(no pun intended grin)  Regardless, I've only got a few colonies so I figure I can make it easier on them without too much expense or trouble.  Somethings that I'm doing...

VENTILATION.  Stick a twig or something between the outer cover and edge of the top super to create a larger gap between those two pieces.  This keeps the inner cover shaded but will create more ventilation.

Something that I did, but requires basic tools (drill and hole saw), was to drill 2-3/4"/70mm holes into my inner covers to allow an extra jar feeder (1/2 gal. instead of just a quart) to be used *and* to be an extra vent hole. (Both the porter escape and 70mm holes have #8 mesh over them.)  More air flow and thus heat/moisture removal.  With evaporative cooling an airflow is required or the air gets over laden with moisture and the evaporative effect is lost.  If I feel the 70mm hole is too much I can simply stick the plug I cut out back into the hole (the wire mesh will keep in from falling on into the hive).  I agree with Mike Bush (not that that matters, being as Mike has light years more of experience and knowledge than I do! Smiley) that you don't need a wide open hive...but in a hot climate I really think you have to have adequate ventilation for the heat/moisture. 

SHADE.  I'm putting some large pieces of heavy cardboard over the tops of my hives this morning.  Weighting them down with bricks/blocks.  I'll also be standing some boards up at least against the west side of the hives to help shade the lower parts of the hives.  The corrugation of the cardboard will also act as insulation in keep the direct solar gain from the sun from heating the top cover so severely.

WATER.  Make sure they have water close by to run their swamp coolers.  I've got an old refrigerator drawer filled with pond water and duckweed sitting inline with the hives...they think it's the YMCA.  Wink

I'm also using screened bottom boards.

The next three days here in south Alabama are 100F, 101F, 100F.  Not desert temps but coupled with 40-50% humidity it will be really nice.  rolleyes

Best wishes.
Ed
Logged

www.beeweather.com 
American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev

"Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they wont come to yours." - Yogi Berra
Intheswamp
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1486

Location: South Central Alabama - Zone 8A


WWW
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2012, 10:08:51 AM »

Keep in mind that once the outside temperature exceeds 93 F the bees have to COOL the hive.  How would you like it if someone left the door open when it was 100 F and the air conditioner was running?

But Mike, it's an evaporative cooling system...not an air conditioner. Smiley

The porter escape hole and the extra 70mm hole that I have cut...what do you think in regards to the extra ventilation of the 70mm hole?  These hives have had these inner covers on for 4 months now and have a ring of propolis roughly 1/4" thick covering probably 1/4" of the holes' perimeters.  I wonder if the propolis is there for shading out stray light coming in possibly under the telescoping cover (propped with a stick a bit) or is it to adjust the air flow?  These hives are on screened bottom boards and sit in full sun.

Thanks,
Ed
Logged

www.beeweather.com 
American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev

"Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they wont come to yours." - Yogi Berra
kathyp
Universal Bee
*******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 15317


Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2012, 10:23:51 AM »

in addition to cooling the hive, they have to keep a certain moisture balance in the hive.  just my observation, but seems to me that taking off the top will just make everything harder for them.  they know how to keep the proper temp in the hive....if we let them...

if you are worried, why not just put a littl stick between the inner and outer cover and make a little vent?
Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
LoriMNnice
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Posts: 232


Location: minnesota


« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2012, 11:44:36 AM »

Thanks everyone, I will not take off the cover.   Smiley
Logged
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2012, 12:00:42 PM »

.
Yes, It is well said Michael. Or try to cool your car with windows open.

In Malaysia I took out ventilation off and used inside circulation in cooling.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
DLMKA
New Bee
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 39

Location: East Peoria, IL


« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2012, 12:17:35 PM »

they way I see it, the bees have already figured out how to control the temp in the hive with they equipment we've given them.  If we change things up on the hottest day of the year they now have to relearn how to manage the changes while they're already under stress.  If anything, provide some shade and a closer water source.
Logged
Intheswamp
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1486

Location: South Central Alabama - Zone 8A


WWW
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2012, 09:30:57 AM »

Ok, here's what I ended up doing for shade...

This picture was made at 11:11am CST yesterday.  I had already placed the cardboard on top so I slid it to the side to show how much solar energy was hitting the sides of the hive without it...


This picture was made at about the same time but with the cardboard in position.  Just those few inches of overhang resulted in a good bit of shade.  The boards laying horizontally are to shade the lower part of the hives...just some boards I had laying around, I'm going to see if I can find some small pieces of scrap plywood or something else rigid that I can stand against the lower parts of the hives.  But, for a free piece of cardboard I think it was a good project...


Here's a shot of my hives with the cardboard in place...


And last, here is a picture of my old refrigerator drawer I picked up the towns metal recycling point.  I had just topped it off with more water and only one bee was venturing into it, but they like it.  I shaded the west side of it, too...I don't know if that matters but I had the scrap metal so...


Best wishes,
Ed
Logged

www.beeweather.com 
American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev

"Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they wont come to yours." - Yogi Berra
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13963


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2012, 09:57:05 AM »

>But Mike, it's an evaporative cooling system...not an air conditioner.

Certainly a colony requires air to run their "swamp coolers" but too much air and the air inside is the same temperature as the air outside... and once the air outside is more than 93 F that is not acceptable.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Intheswamp
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1486

Location: South Central Alabama - Zone 8A


WWW
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2012, 10:39:44 AM »

>But Mike, it's an evaporative cooling system...not an air conditioner.

Certainly a colony requires air to run their "swamp coolers" but too much air and the air inside is the same temperature as the air outside... and once the air outside is more than 93 F that is not acceptable.

I would think that we don't want to open the hive up too much or we would lose the cavity environment, but without sufficient ventilation evaporative cooling would be an act of futility for the bees.  I think the bees definitely need more ventilation in the summer than in the winter.

Consider the misting stations at amusement parks, or those people set up around their pools or patios or even the portable swamp coolers folks use under the sheds of their shops...these are mostly completely unenclosed but yet the evaporative action cools the immediate area.   Here is a question,...Do external comb colonies that have exposed comb hanging from tree limbs cool their comb and brood by evaporative cooling? 

Mike, I'm not trying to argue for the sake of arguing but am curious about this.  I somewhat understand the basics of evaporative cooling and know that a good air flow is necessary.  I agree that we don't want to pull the top off of the hives but if we can reduce the time and energy that the bees burn in cooling their hives then those two commodities can either be conserved for later use (in the case of stores) or used for other constructive projects like foraging, comb building, etc., (in the case of time).

But, I will remind myself (and anybody else reading this) that I am a newbee just trying to figure things out.  I appreciate your comments as usual.

Best wishes,
Ed
Logged

www.beeweather.com 
American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev

"Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they wont come to yours." - Yogi Berra
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2012, 05:18:54 PM »

.
European honey bee meets difficulties in hot jungle climates. For exanple killer bee arised because European bee is not able to live in nature in jungles. Then they brougfrican bee which stands hot weather better. Snd the rest is history.

Roger White in Cyprus says that when he has brought Scandinavian Buckfast bees to Cyprus, they do not stand hot weathers.  He says oo that he had seen in Africa, how European bee do not survive in most areas.

The relatives of Apis mellifera make one single comb in opean air.
Asian honeybee Apis cerana has many comb system and mostly hives in open air. But probably in shadows.
 
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
iddee
Galactic Bee
******
Online Online

Gender: Male
Posts: 6294

Location: Randleman, NC


« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2012, 11:07:40 PM »

""But Mike, it's an evaporative cooling system...not an air conditioner. ""

Intheswamp, please tell me what kind of A/C you have that is NOT evaporative cooling.
I don't think I know of any.

We took the bee's idea and started using chemicals like freon in a closed system, but it is still done by evaporation.
Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2012, 08:01:41 AM »

.
It is well known how hives regulate hive temperature.

First is normal heat production and fanning heat.

In moderate cases nertar working makes heat inside and fanning moisture away keeps balance inside.

If nectar evaporation is not enough, bee start to carry water in, and they put water droplets in cells, - in brood cells too, to make evaporation effect.

If it is too hot, part of bees come out from hive.

I have seen too with my eyes that in hot hive bees go to corners and to walls.
They abandon brood and seach cool places in the hive.

An Australian bee researcher wrote in this forum couple years ago that all nucs died in hot weather and many big hives absconded.

.
Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
Intheswamp
Queen Bee
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1486

Location: South Central Alabama - Zone 8A


WWW
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2012, 09:59:00 AM »

""But Mike, it's an evaporative cooling system...not an air conditioner. ""

Intheswamp, please tell me what kind of A/C you have that is NOT evaporative cooling.
I don't think I know of any.

We took the bee's idea and started using chemicals like freon in a closed system, but it is still done by evaporation.
Well, idee, you can look at it ever how you want to, but in the conversation that has gone on there is a world of difference between the two.  I won't waste my time explaining the finer points of refrigerant cooling versus evaporative cooling, but I will point out one big difference...evaporative cooling ADDS MOISTURE to the air whereas refrigerant cooling REMOVES MOISTURE from the air.  Google could be your friend.

ETA:  And I understand condensers, evaporators, freon, etc., in a closed system but I don't think that a bee could live in it...but, I'm a newbee, what do I know?
Logged

www.beeweather.com 
American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev

"Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they wont come to yours." - Yogi Berra
GLOCK
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 96


Location: north east PA.


« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2012, 02:05:49 PM »

I take off my top cover and replace it with a screen cover then put the tel.top back on with a 2in block on top the screen cover to hold the  tel. top cocked up  works great all summer long and i have 2 pure black hives and they are really strong and no bearding or washboarding going on any of my hives.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 03:30:16 PM by GLOCK » Logged

Say hello to the bad guy.
31hives  {T} OVA
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.264 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page December 10, 2014, 12:22:25 AM