Honey Production.

[asprince]

Let me ask for you opinion......fact or opinion.

Will two single deep hives with ten frames of bees each make as much honey as one hive with two deeps and twenty frames of bees?



Steve

[hardwood]

No.

Scott

[ranger774]

I agree with Hardwood.

[Sundog]

No.

Scott

Please elaborate.

Thanks

[mikecva]

My 2 cents:  No

The bees will control the ratio of forgers, guards and workers. A single deep will have less space for forgers and workers to work. Also with the confined space the queen will slow down and the colony will know they do not need as much stores thus less honey.  -Mike
 

[rdy-b]

Let me ask for you opinion......fact or opinion.

Will two single deep hives with ten frames of bees each make as much honey as one hive with two deeps and twenty frames of bees?



Steve

running singles require the same amount of bees as would a double-the trick is you would have twenty frames of bees
with a signal brood chamber-this means that you have ten frames of bees up inside honey suppers at all times--this is why
if you had ten frame signal it would out produce a ten frame double
many people run singles for honey because of the time there flows come on-lots of people will take a slow double and re-queen and consolidate down two a signal and salvage a honey crop

something to consider when we talk about singles is the queen lays at a certain rate and there are a certain number of cells
 on a frame-this has been calculated and found that in a perfect world if the queen layed her max eggs per day and went through a complete brood cycle she would fill 10-11 frames with brood-we all know you cant get 10 frame of brood in one box
but in a realistic colony you could stay up with the queen-if they put all the honey up

dont be fooled by others that say it takes 4 box hive to make a surplus--to run a hive with 4 box brood chamber efficiently you would need two queens-but they dont talk about that part--RDY-B

[Finski]

.
Yield depends on pastures, how much nectar is in flowers. Then the distance, how much bees need to work to carry nectar home.

But in my beekeeping one or two box of bees are not capable to produce honey.
To me 4 boxes is minimum and I prefer 6 boxes. I join weak hive to get 6 box units.

Of course I may get one honey frame from 3-frame mating nuc, but I do not call it "honey production".

[rdy-b]

**To me 4 boxes is minimum and I prefer 6 boxes.**

 we are exploring the topic of singles as brood chambers--heres what it comes down to there are 3500 cells on each side of a deep frame--both sides will give use 7000 cells for a frame--
 lets consider there will be some honey and pollen on these frames--15% of cells for honey and pollen-this gives use
 5950 cells the queen can lay in (both sides of a deep frame) --now lets consider how many eggs your queen will lay
 we here any where from 1000-2500 for our purpose we will assume the queen will lay 1500 eggs a day
that means she fills a frame of 5950 cells in about 3.9 days--so 4 days--
 lets remember she will lay for 21 days before cells are freed up by emerging brood--
so in that 21 day period she will fill 5.25 frames both sides--
 
 you can plug in different numbers for your own purpose-but it is clear to me that even the best of queens
can be kept with 5-7 frames of brood

what do you need with all those boxes I am curious as to what you are actually trying to say-when you say 4 box unit
   RDY-B

[asprince]

RDY-B. You are saying two singles would yield more honey than one double? I have read you posts and gave it some thought. If you can keep them from storing large sums of honey in the brood boxes a single could have more bees than a double.


? Steve ?

[rdy-b]

**are saying two singles would yield more honey than one double?**

 your question of twenty frames versus two ten frame hives gives starting advantage to the twenty frame hive

what Im saying is that a signal brood chamber hive can produce as much brood and have the same population as the double brood chamber hive
the point is one brood chamber is all the room the queen needs to lay in she can only lay so many eggs

when i start package bees whether on comb or foundation i always run them as signals with a excluder the second box is all honey -everything above excluder gets harvested-this pays for the bees-after harvest excluder removed and colony is run as two box hive through winter--point is if i did not run the excluder and keep all brood in bottom box there would of been no harvesting of honey--this is the difference of signals as honey production and missing a harvest

 running signals is just another tool we can use to hedge our bets when conditions warrant --the idea that you have to
huge hive to produce honey is misplaced -signal brood chamber can assist in honey production-- RDY-B

[asprince]

Thanks for your explanation. Gives me something to think about.


Steve 

[Finski]

Let me ask for you opinion......fact or opinion.

Will two single deep hives with ten frames of bees each make as much honey as one hive with two deeps and twenty frames of bees?



Steve

Rby. Question was not about single brood hive. 20 frame bees means 2 boxes.

20 frames of bees is not a productive hive. 60 is.

20 frames of bees is a big swarm, 4 kg.


Normally this kind of hive is building up and they use all to larvae what they get.

Yeah! in flow week every hive brings something but along the summer.


.

.

[rdy-b]

**20 frames of bees is a big swarm, 4 kg.**

 as a general rule of thumb one frame full of bees =one pound of bees
at the very least it would double your estimate of the weight

 20 frames of bees will bring in surplus of 3-7 pounds (1-3 kg) a day on a major flow
 you should know this you run a balance hive on a scale -   --RDY-B

[Finski]

**20 frames of bees is a big swarm, 4 kg.**

 as a general rule of thumb one frame full of bees =one pound of bees
at the very least it would double your estimate of the weight

 20 frames of bees will bring in surplus of 3-7 pounds (1-3 kg) a day on a major flow
 you should know this you run a balance hive on a scale -   --RDY-B

Listen now guy. I have bought so many tens swarms that I know what they are and what they fill.
.

.Don't teach duck to swim...



You take a swar,m into box and put it on balance. Then you put intop the hive and see, how much it oc
.

[MTWIBadger]

What about combining two single deep hives with a queen excluder to make a 2 queen two deep hive?  Would this configuration make more honey than two single deep hives?

[rdy-b]

What about combining two single deep hives with a queen excluder to make a 2 queen two deep hive?  Would this configuration make more honey than two single deep hives?

 the two queen hives always out preform any signal one queen hive
your asking if it would out perform two hives-??
just because there is a signal brood chamber dose not mean the mass of the hive wont
produce as much as a double deep hive
remember you have to manage any hive setup for honey correctly--remember the condo type tower hive configuration
where two signals where set side by side and they shared a stack of supers -everyone thought that was the cool set up
but they did not preform for honey compared to conventional methods -- RDY-B

[MTWIBadger]

The reason why I ask is because I have 3 swarms which are still in single deep supers. I don't expect to get any honey out of them this year. If I stacked two of them divided by a queen excluder, would I be able to get more honey production.  My honey flow is July/August.

[rdy-b]

The reason why I ask is because I have 3 swarms which are still in single deep supers. I don't expect to get any honey out of them this year. If I stacked two of them divided by a queen excluder, would I be able to get more honey production.  My honey flow is July/August.

 if they are not strong enough to make honey now-then at-least build one strong signal by adding brood--
 get honey crop from the signal -this is good example of when a strong signal can save your season-if you stack  for
 power hive you will have two weak hives in two big boxes and they will just build up strength and not produce surplus like the strong signal-
all the resources they bring in will be used for power hive build up- RDY-B

[Finski]

.
When I started beekeeping, I bought swarms. I united even 3 swarms to get two full boxes of bees.
Those hives brought extracted honey 40 kg in their first summer. And our yield summer is one month long. Only July. Further more hives drew 3 boxes foundations. But I used sugar in comb building.

Since then I have had all kinds of nucs and I know what they do.

.But it depends first of all on pastures. Some pastures give 3 times more honey than some other place. Even 5 fold. To select pastures is difficult. A distance may be only 5 km between these sites.


 

[rdy-b]

** I united even 3 swarms to get two full boxes of bees.
Those hives brought extracted honey 40 kg in their first summer. And our yield summer is one month long. Only July. Further **
 
 I thought you said 20 frames wont produce honey -

 also tell me more about this combining and uniting--I want to know if you are runing two queens
 or are just combining bees-these litel details -- --RDY-B