Your opinion, please.........

[kathyp]

we should probably distinguish between services we agree we need and even want, and taking money from one person and giving it to another.  

most of us willingly pay for things like sewer, water, utilities, fire and police, and even schools...although i'd like to be rid of the public school system as it now exists.  most of us probably agree that there should be some safety net for those who can't care for themselves.

the kind of programs that make us crazy are the ones that redistribute wealth as a matter of "fairness".  i don't think it's fair for me to work hard to feed, cloth, and shelter my family, and then be expected to pay for the same for others.  i don't think it's healthy for them either.  if you are hungry, you will work...or you will find a charity to get you though until you can work.  if you are cold, you will find a way to stay warm.  if i take care of your needs, what is your incentive to make your life better?

i suppose that sounds harsh, but we have an ever increasing number of people taking some form of public assistance.  i understand that times are hard, but that happens and government shouldn't be the fall back position for every rough spot we hit.  + the higher percentage of the population taking from the government AND voting, the more will be taken by those who are non-producers.  after all, when you can vote for more handouts, why would you not?

[Wonga]

kathyp - you are right, stupid re-distribution of wealth gets out of hand and does harm in the long run. And I think the voucher system for public education is a great idea. But, regardless of political debate, I think the handouts will shrink anyway, in your country and in mine, as tax bases shrink, and as borrowing becomes harder due to the shrinking tax base.

And I think tax bases will shrink because the capital inevitably flows towards larger returns/lower costs/booming markets. I fear that US, Australia, Europe, - the OECD countries - will decline due to this sort of capital flow -  (I hope I am wrong., and it wil not be straightforward) After all British capital - the huge profits from their invention of industrialisation and railways, etc, - flowed out of the UK from the late 19th Century on, financing US & German industrialisation, amongst others. 

US (and much smaller Australian) profits headed out, we all know where to . . . . .   my Bose stereo made in Mexico, not US, my Apple computer made in China, not US, my washing machine made in China, not Australia, list goes on. All the US and Australian jobs making shirts, televisions, washing machines, and all the rest, are all gone, unless their companies have handouts from government - and I know its no good trying to regulate the capital flow any way.

So maybe when it all shakes out we will get some sort of lean and hungry society like Slovakia - low taxes, low government too, who knows

[kingbee]

we should... distinguish between services we... need ...and taking money from one person and giving it to another... we have an ever increasing number of people taking... public assistance... after all, when you can vote for more handouts, why would you not?

kathyp, As a small businessman I had literally dozens of people apply for jobs of a physical and strenuously nature.  When I interviewed them they told me they would only work for cash money, IE green backs, dead Presidents.  The reason being they were drawing disability checks and a job that required me to deduct payroll taxes from their wages, and file forms W4, 940, 941, and 944 with the IRS would cost the perspective employee their monthly government check.  Now toss in food stamps, Medicade, WIC, free school lunches, free or subsidized housing, etc, etc etc.  One even volunteered that he was drawing TWO disability checks under slightly different names from widely separated states.

It is not just the filthy rich who are not paying their fair share in taxes, The Great Unexploited Poor are just as bad maybe worse because the rich usually avoid paying taxes LEGALY.  The following comments are not directed at anyone in particular but some of you people haven't seen much of the real world have you??  I guess the poet was right when he said, "Ignorance is bliss!!"

[kathyp]

And I think tax bases will shrink because the capital inevitably flows towards larger returns/lower costs/booming markets. I fear that US, Australia, Europe, - the OECD countries - will decline due to this sort of capital flow -  (I hope I am wrong., and it wil not be straightforward) After all British capital - the huge profits from their invention of industrialisation and railways, etc, - flowed out of the UK from the late 19th Century on, financing US & German industrialisation, amongst others. 

sure, and some of that is just the nature of the beast.  emerging markets are hungry.  older markets get fat and lazy.  when the brits were imperialists they owned their own materials, labor, and markets.  it didn't matter if the US didn't need to buy from them.  after the two big wars, the brits were down and the US had material, labor, and the ability to reach, if not own, the markets. 

when we got fat and lazy, the Japanese were coming on strong and everything was "made in Japan". then they blew it. 

these are the natural cycles of things.  the cycles used to take 100's of years, but tech has shortened that time.  that's not to say that nothing can be done to stay competitive, but to do it, you have to have a population willing to work hard and make sacrifices.  we (europe, US, etc.) have a population willing to sit around complaining about "made in China", but not willing to do what needs to be done to be competitive....and governments that make it worse than it would be if they just got out of the way.