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Author Topic: Critters in the garden  (Read 9997 times)
watercarving
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« on: June 09, 2012, 01:52:19 PM »

Had an exciting morning working the tomatoes. Never know what you'll find.

Has been a good year overall. Good rain and no blight on the heirlooms.

http://www.johncall.com/2012/06/critters-in-garden.html

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Shawn
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« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2012, 02:02:18 PM »

Very nice. With my job and coworkers I have the option of getting snakes on a frequent basis. I ask them to take them to my strawberry patches around the house and put them in there. We mainly on see bull snakes and rattle snakes so the rattle snakes have to go else where since I live in town.
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iddee
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« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2012, 03:44:39 PM »

Nice snake, John, and they do eat other snakes, but this specimen is a black rat snake rather than a kingsnake. Still a safe, helpful addition to your garden. Thanks for letting him survive.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2012, 07:14:48 PM »

I haven't seen any horn worms yet, but some of the tomatoes we pick last week had bites in them that I assumed came from them.   We have them every year. 

With the snakes, I have been expecting the copperheads to be out, but have not seen one here yet.   Me and the 5 year old spent all last Sat. eating blackberries and looking for timber rattlers.  We only got blackberries. 
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watercarving
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2012, 08:23:57 PM »

Is it a black rat snake? I wondered but it markings with the creamy color on the sides a little bit made me think it was a king snake.

How do I tell the difference?
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AllenF
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2012, 09:45:53 PM »

http://www.google.com/search?q=black+rat+snake&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=FPzTT4TIH4Kc8QTE9-XjAw&ved=0CGAQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=599


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iddee
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« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2012, 10:52:24 PM »

There are many kings, but the one you are thinking of is the Eastern Chain King.

http://www.snakesandfrogs.com/scra/snakes/images/kingsnake-2.jpg
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2012, 10:21:09 PM »

Nice tobacco hornworm John! 

I raised about 6 of them last fall and got them to pupate in sawdust for me.  Theyíre still in the saw dust; havenít emerged yet.  I guess theyíre waiting for our tomato plants to get bigger before they emerge from the sawdust as a moth. 
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kingbee
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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2012, 03:22:42 PM »

... Is it a black rat snake? ...it markings with the creamy color on the sides ...made me think it was a king snake.  How do I tell the difference?


http://www.google.com/imgres?q=black+rat+snake&hl=en&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=1519&bih=761&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=cnpaqhc2tUKLpM:&imgrefurl=http://fieldguides.eol.org/fieldguide-view.php%3Fguidekey%3D222%26eol_id%3D2816377%26sci_flag%3D0&docid=y2ftzuAxch21hM&imgurl=http://content61.eol.org/content/2011/03/27/23/11315_orig.jpg&w=500&h=393&ei=N7DoT-foIce30AH9hO2XCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=207&vpy=414&dur=2622&hovh=199&hovw=253&tx=72&ty=115&sig=106298988058458969282&page=3&tbnh=138&tbnw=230&start=51&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:51,i:324

Don't confuse the black and cream colored snake in the above link for either a king snake, or a rat snake.  I could be the last mistake you ever make.   
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iddee
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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2012, 07:19:17 PM »

Kingbee, I don't know what link you meant to put up, but the link above is a black rat snake. Totally harmless.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2012, 10:56:34 AM »

Yes they are harmless, but they can give you a start when your out at just dusk rolling up the water hose; reaching under the cuke vines so not trash them and pick up a big one. Thankfully, I don't know who was more spooked  him or me.  I don't mind snakes but I want to see them and not touch them.
Thankfully it wasn't a rattler as we have them around here too.
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Mtn. Bee
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 11:41:13 AM »

Just giant slugs and gophers here and the deer don't ever give up!
Taste like chicken though!     shocked
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iddee
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« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 11:53:01 AM »

Here's a beauty I found while bush hogging. Played with him a few minutes, shot some pics and let him go on his way.



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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 12:27:39 PM »

OK iddee, I don't know my snakes very well; what is it?  Head looks like a viper.
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David McLeod
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« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 03:34:48 PM »

Us folks from LA (Lower Alabama) call that thing a velvet tail. Most everyone else knows it as a timber rattlesnake or in some areas a canebrake rattler. The distinguishing features are the dark chevrons across the back and the brown dorsal stripe down the back.
Real nice snakes to leave alone and not play with. I never kill a snake and relocate them critters but definitely not to be played with when one understands the nature of their venom. It varies from a lower toxicity hemotoxin (blood poison) in it's northern range to a far more virulent hemotoxic PLUS neurotoxins (nerve poisons) the further south you go. Our Georgia timbers are particurlarly noted for really bad stuff in their venom.
Now if I were to ever kill another they do fry up nicely.
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2012, 03:37:53 PM »

Velvet tail refers to the black coloration on the tail leading up to the rattles. It is a matte black that looks velvety in appearance.
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AllenF
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« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2012, 05:06:25 PM »

This is where I differ from you.   I normally just leave them where they lay.   Just headless.   I ran across more timber rats last year than all my other years combined.   Year of the rattle snake I guess.   I got me snake boots for Christmas last year after that.   
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David McLeod
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« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2012, 05:45:03 PM »

Allen, you do realize that just as many folks are bitten while attempting to harm a snake as there are that are playing with a snake. You're much better off just walking away.
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AllenF
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« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2012, 07:28:47 PM »

I just get the jesters thinking about my 6 year old playing in the woods and knowing I let one of the suckers live out there. 
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David McLeod
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« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2012, 08:04:09 PM »

And that is why I relocate them, and I have the tools and training to safely do so.
Little known fact; many pit vipers, timbers particularly, have an established home range and when moved off that range fail to reestablish and succumb to hazards such as weather from failing to find winter denning sites. Like I said I relocate but I might be killing them after all.
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iddee
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« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2012, 11:18:06 AM »

Allen, do you blow up every car that goes by your house, so your 6 year old won't get hit when he goes in the street?

If not, you sound a bit hypocritical.

All snakes, even the rattlers, do a lot of good for the environment, and when you needlessly remove one, you leave a space for more vermin to live.

Although they MAY be considered territorial, it is a very large territory. That one is the first we have found on our 116 acres in over 10 years, so I don't think it is residing there regularly.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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David McLeod
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« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2012, 12:11:38 PM »

You are correct in that it is a large home range for the pit vipers. Studies  that have been done show that the movemnet across these ranges is seasonal moving to sheltered denning sites in the fall and out to areas that support prey species in the spring. Many times one seen like yours is just passing through between these points. The biggest key in any snake control program is the same as controling most any other species, food and habitat. The one caveat is that for non mobile species like snakes both food and habitat need to be in close proximity. If both of these exists in sufficient quantity on any given site then there will be snakes present. To stop that from happening control the habitat (remove brushpiles, cut the grass, etc) and control prey species (remove bird feeders, mast trees, remove habitat of prey species, etc).
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Georgia Wildlife Services,Inc
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iddee
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« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2012, 01:15:26 PM »

 goodpost  Lots of good info in a few words.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2012, 01:43:46 PM »

Why do you think there are so many rats (large) in NYC  , because there are no snakes...
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JPBEEGETTER
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« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2012, 01:45:05 PM »

Iddee, getting any rain down your way, we are.
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« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2012, 01:47:46 PM »

Isn't it a fine now in Randolph county for killing rattlers now. I heared that it was $5,000.00. Down on the mountain.
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iddee
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« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2012, 05:57:03 PM »

It is illegal to catch or kill a rattler anywhere in NC. The details, I don't know.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2012, 10:16:17 PM »

David, that was informative information about the Timber Rattler.  We only have one venomous snake in Michigan and it is the rarely seen Eastern Massasauga Rattlesnake.  Iíve never seen one.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12145_12201-32995--,00.html
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BlueBee
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« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2012, 10:22:00 PM »

It is illegal to catch or kill a rattler anywhere in NC. The details, I don't know.
So NC beeks can go out firing all their high powered guns at night at anything that might look like a feral pig (in the dark!), but they canít kill a rattler huh 
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David McLeod
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« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2012, 10:32:55 PM »

I don't know the massasaugas but from what I understand in some areas they are in serious trouble and many states are extending protections to these and other species.

Here in Georgia we have a weird set of circumstances due to poorly worded law. It is illegal to harm, catch without permit or possess any of our native non venomous species. Yet one can keep as many of our venomous species as one wants without permit. The reason is that the law was written to protect our native species from being collected in the wild for the pet trade but the legislature did not want to prevent citizens from being able to "defend" themselves from "dangerous snakes" so all venomous species were specifically exempted from the blanket protection afforded other species. Hence if I so chose I could keep as many eastern diamond backs, timbers, mocassins, corals, pygmys or copperheads as I want anywhere I want anyway I want and nobody can say a word to me about it.

Now I ain't that stupid. Snakes in general make lousy pets, they ain't exactly the warm and cuddly type. But it's just another one of those things that make wonder why we vote to send those folks to Atlanta.
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« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2012, 10:37:02 PM »

It is illegal to catch or kill a rattler anywhere in NC. The details, I don't know.
So NC beeks can go out firing all their high powered guns at night at anything that might look like a feral pig (in the dark!), but they canít kill a rattler huh 

And what is wrong with that? Feral hogs are non native and if you ever saw the damage they do you might agree with me that all hogs found outside of a secure enclosure should be killed on sight by any means possible.
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Georgia Wildlife Services,Inc
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BlueBee
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« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2012, 10:48:03 PM »

When it comes to protecting human life there might be a bit of a double standard in play there.  Just saying  Wink

No, I don't have any problems with shooting feral pigs.  However wouldn't it be safer to the general public to be shooting off guns during the day time when you can see where the bullets are going?
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BlueBee
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« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2012, 10:51:36 PM »

Hence if I so chose I could keep as many eastern diamond backs, timbers, mocassins, corals, pygmys or copperheads as I want anywhere I want anyway I want and nobody can say a word to me about it.
LOL, maybe I better wear snake boots the next time I visit Zanesville, OH!  

I still canít believe the lawmakers in Columbus didnít tighten up Ohioís wild animal laws.   Sorry, got a little off topic there.
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iddee
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« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2012, 08:55:37 AM »

Yeah, bluebee, just like you eat poor unborn bird babies.

You can make anything sound different than it really is.




Had your eggs yet this morning?  Kiss
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2012, 11:28:18 AM »

No, I don't eat too many eggs, bad for the Cholesterol  grin
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iddee
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« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2012, 01:56:44 PM »

But us dumb, dirty, unkempt rednecks do eat those poor, unborn baby chickens.
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. And we shoot our food both day and night. Also, if we kill a rattlesnake, we eat that, too.   Kiss Kiss Kiss    grin
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2012, 11:40:46 PM »

Kingbee, I don't know what link you meant to put up, but the link above is a black rat snake. Totally harmless.

The link is not working but it is supposed to show a cotton mouth water moccasin.
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kingbee
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« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2012, 06:30:56 PM »

...

Here's a beauty I found while bush hogging....




A farmer down Swamp's way in LA was baling hay in round bails.  He got off the tractor to see about something and a big old Eastern Damand Back Rattle Snake was half baled up in a roll of hay still in the baler. 

First off the farmer could not hear No Shoulders rattling, mostly because the tail end of the snake was tightly rolled up in a bale of hay, but the business end was in the free and clear and I am sure it was going through some "changes" after being swept off its 'feet' and up into a hay baler.  When the farmer walked around the baler the snake struck him in the neck.  The tractor was still idling several hours later when they found the farmer, deader than 4:o'clock and the snake still struggling to free its self.  Just makes me think of all those times when I was hauling hay and found a snake or a peice of a snake in a hay bale, sometimes it was still moving. 
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