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Author Topic: Moving Frames in New Hive  (Read 1125 times)

Offline maddiekisses

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Moving Frames in New Hive
« on: June 08, 2012, 01:14:37 AM »
Just starting beekeeping a few weeks ago.  Now I have another question - Do I need to rearrange the order of frames in new hives? I've looked up info and it seems that it's recommended to move the frames, but keep them in the same order. Does this mean I should put the frames with little action or less action in the middle and put the other frames around it?  I have 8 frame equipmet if that matters.

Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2012, 03:32:43 AM »
There are times when it can help to move frames.  When you add a new box, it helps to move a couple of frames up to the new box to provide a ladder for the bees to expand.  Add a box when 6 or 7 of your 8 frames are full of bees.  When your brood nest is getting too crowded in the spring, add empty frames between frames of brood to open the brood nest.

In general you don't need to spend much time moving frames around.   The bees will organize things the way they prefer.
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline mikecva

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2012, 01:06:05 PM »
My daughter kept moving the frames ( every three weeks) in one of her new hives several years ago, after two months the bees gave up and absconded or she lost the queen. Now she just lets the bees do what they have been doing for a million years.  (My 2 cents)   -Mike
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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 03:53:38 PM »
I would never move them around without a clear cut reason and plan.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline maddiekisses

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 05:56:15 PM »
I would never move them around without a clear cut reason and plan.


What would be the clear cut reasons?  I guess this was my original question. 

Offline Finski

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 06:10:27 PM »
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Moving frames make more harms that benefits. Yes, I have done it so many times that I know it.
Bees try to keep brood space compact.
If laying to every two frame is usefull, bees woud do it by themselves, but they do not.

 
 

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Offline Beeboy01

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 08:04:25 PM »
I have always kept the frames in the same order when moving them into a new box, it helps keep the bee space even. Next time you are in a hive check out how the wax on the frames fit together a little like a puzzle, if you change the order you could get two frames with the comb far apart or too tight together. I will change the order is if I'm pulling some full frames for extraction, then I will compress the remaining frames and add foundation or drawn comb on the outside. Moving two or three frames up into the center of a new box is the only other time I will rearrange the frames. There really is no reason to move frames around in the brood box unless you are doing a split or nuc, you risk injuring or killing the queen. 

Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2012, 08:22:05 PM »
If laying to every two frame is usefull, bees woud do it by themselves, but they do not.

Well, that's true, but then the bees also like to swarm.  Not every natural thing bees do is to the advantage of the beekeeper. 
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline JackM

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 09:34:05 AM »
As a newbie, and having a package and a nuc and going foundationless.... in 8 frame supers.
I really don't have much choice but to move the comb around to get the bees to use a new box, or to get the full sized frames down to the size I use.  Also using that to get straighter comb.  

I finally gave up and have started putting in every other frame with foundation to get them going straight in an empty box.  Guess I will see how that goes, eventually, the large frames and the foundations will get cycled out, along with the bizarre comb from the beginning with two combs on one frame and such.  Where possible I do put an empty foundationless frame between frames of brood to get straight comb too.

Guess I will see if it causes issues, I am trying to keep brood centered in the  boxes and stacked to keep the brood as compact as necessary.
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Offline Finski

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 11:31:50 AM »
As a newbie, and having a package and a nuc and going foundationless.... in 8 frame supers.
I really don't have much choice but to move the comb around to get the bees to use a new box, or to get the full sized frames down to the size I use.  

You just make wrong-you force to draw more foundations than the colony stands.

You keep too big  space to the colony and that makes the build up slow.

As a newbie, your experience is limited but however you are right. I wonder from where that absolute intelligence comes?


One box needs 4 lbs swarm or package that it occupyes the whole box.



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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2012, 12:32:10 PM »
I will open the brood nest to control swarming, this is adding empty frames to the brood nest and you have to move something somewhere to make room.  Doing a split you often move frames somewhere else.  People sometimes take the outside frame and flip it to get the outside of it drawn.  These would be reasons.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline Finski

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 03:18:49 PM »


Well, that's true, but then the bees also like to swarm.  Not every natural thing bees do is to the advantage of the beekeeper. 

Bees are going to swarm? A guy started beekeeping a few weeks ago with package.

A beekeeper where?
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Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2012, 03:47:22 PM »


Well, that's true, but then the bees also like to swarm.  Not every natural thing bees do is to the advantage of the beekeeper. 

Bees are going to swarm? A guy started beekeeping a few weeks ago with package.

The discussion of "every other frame"  was related to swarm prevention in an established hive.  You are right that it would make no sense in a new hive from a package.
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline JackM

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Re: Moving Frames in New Hive
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2012, 10:11:23 AM »
Quote
As a newbie, your experience is limited but however you are right. I wonder from where that absolute intelligence comes?
 ? ? ?  I hope my impression of that includes the language barrier.

when one puts on a new box because the  one below is full ... it is empty, no choice.  I have two excellent mentors.
“I now have absolute proof that smoking even one marijuana cigarette is equal in brain damage to being on Bikini Island during an H-bomb blast” – Ronald Reagan