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Author Topic: Explaining Socialism in an easy to understand way  (Read 8576 times)
Hemlock
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« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2012, 11:14:11 PM »

Just came home from a beer tasting at the neighbors and watched this.  Am STILL laughing about it.  However, i read the comments and laughed even more. 

I tell you what!  I have a plan to make Everybody happy...

Those darned 1%, who DARE to have more than somebody else, can pay into the system to help the disadvantaged.  See, like this, The 1% pay annually into a special fund, whatever percent the POTUS decrees.  Now that dough is use SOLELY to pay for the transportation of citizens, who think the USA should be as good as some other country, TO that country for permanent resettlement. 

Think about it...
*The 1% now has to pay up.  (liberals are happy)
*The people who like other countries more are now coolies for the third-world-dictator of their choice.  (liberals are happy)
*The POTUS has crazy super-constitutional powers.  (liberals are happy)
of course...
*The 1% are only too happy to pay for the removal of people from this county that hate it (Americans are happy)
*The next Conservative/Constitutional POTUS might actually quadruple the Special 1% tax rate (liberals are happy) to expedite the removal of liberals (Americans are happy)

OH! and check out my Smiley face icon-----> evil Which as we ALL KNOW means if you get all upset about this you're just too thinned skinned...

WOW! that 'Old Rasputin Imperial Stout' just wont let go...
...I bet there's a few around here that would Love to have Him (Rasputin) as POTUS. 

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kathyp
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« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2012, 12:22:51 AM »

heck of a plan.  what cabinet position can we appoint you to?  social director??   evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2012, 02:52:26 AM »

It would have to be an appointment like you said, cause even I would not vote for me!  Consider how Biased I must be.  To like the USA more than all those other countries.  You know, The countries that put the rights of the individual BEFORE the power of government. 

No, wait.  I mean the Power of the government above the interests of the citizens.

I mean, the Power of the government FOR the interest of the citizens.  No not citizens...Groups, yeah that's it, Groups.  We are all just groups, but we're not equal until we're all the same group. 

So, The Power of Government to make us all Equal.

Right, cause we're not born equal.  It's the governments job to make us equal.  While, it's our civic duty to remain equal with everyone else.  Now i get it!

Hey! I think i can work for the government now...

Thanks kathy, you're the best!
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Jim 134
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« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2012, 12:31:48 PM »

Beekeeping is like socialism.

We give them a free crappy house,  free crappy healthcare, free crappy food, we work them to death, steal/rob their gold, hand select their leaders,  take from strong hives and give to the weaker ones, try to persuade them life is good and not to leave,  capture the ones that do leave and justify it by claiming we are taking care of them.  They should be grateful....we could just spray them with Raid.

It's fun!



 goodpost



    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley

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"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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"The farmer is the only man in our economy who buys everything at retail, sells everything at wholesale, and pays the freight both ways."
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bluegrass
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« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2012, 04:09:44 PM »

Ironically the segment of the population that fears "socialism" most is the same segment that is predominately employed by one of the most expensive socialist establishments in the world. The US Military. 
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kathyp
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« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2012, 08:12:50 PM »

Quote
Ironically the segment of the population that fears "socialism" most is the same segment that is predominately employed by one of the most expensive socialist establishments in the world. The US Military. 

guessing you were never in the military or you would know just how untrue that is!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
bluegrass
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« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2012, 08:14:08 PM »

Actually I was 1997-2001. I know how true it is. Also have multiple family members who are life long military and military retired. I am a firm believer that it is an experience every American should have. I also think that Military Service/ROTC should be a requirement for anybody receiving Pell grant and other federal financial aid for college. Or re-start the CCC and offer young people service in that as an alternative.
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beek4018
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« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2012, 05:45:06 AM »

Bluegrass,

I'm  curious then.  Why then do you consider the US military to be a socialist organization?

I don't disagree, but, having never served, I'm curious to hear yor perspective.
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beek4018
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« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2012, 05:56:10 AM »

Quote
This guy's rant is EXACTLY why we need to abolish tax exempt status for all religious institutions.

that would have done obama out of a lot of politicking.  evil

historically, pubs and churches were the two main places where politics were hashed out.  it was not until the 70's or so that churches began to ignore politics because they became afraid of the bogus separation issue.  in a free country, you can't really separate religious views and political position.  part of politics is the moral stand taken on issues. 
that's one of the reasons that communist countries seek to destroy or co-opt organized religion as soon as they come into power.  it the reason people like Bonhoffer ended up in jail and then killed.  He and his kind are the reason we don't want to separate our beliefs  from our politics.

Kathy,
I don't really have a problem with religion and politics.  I do have a problem with tax amnesty for any religious group.  There's no compelling reason for it.  And the fact they they avoided politics in favor of making sure they avoided taxes is further proof that doing good and delivering a quality message is secondary to their quest for money.

That's assuming that their political messaging was truly what they believed and thought right and best for society and not an attempt to attract wealthy donors of a particular political bent.  In which case they'd probably run a quick spreadsheet and see that wealthy donors regularly giving even 5% of their income trumps saving on taxes any day.  and that is precisely why so many churches these days are happily flaunting their political views.  It's profitable.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 10:18:44 AM by beek4018 » Logged
bluegrass
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« Reply #69 on: August 17, 2012, 06:02:56 AM »

It is all Inclusive. You work for them, they Feed you, House you, provide your Healthcare, and Education and control every aspect of your life. They can send you anywhere they want to in the world. Make you do whatever they want you to do, swear you to secrecy about it so even your own family doesn't know where you are and what you are doing. Unlike a traditional job you can't quit or walk out until your contract is up. I have known people who have had to trade their contract in for a longer one in the Reserves to be released back into civilian life.

Everybody has the potential to be equals, but just like real socialist governments equality never really exists. It is unarguably the most powerful organization in the world, the most expensive, one of the longest standing and is run on a principle of socialism.   


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kathyp
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« Reply #70 on: August 17, 2012, 09:53:56 AM »

socialism, boiled down, is equality in outcome.  so lets examine the military, and i am from one of those multi-generation military families.

while it is true that they house and feed you, the do expect that you perform.  rather than all being equal regardless of effort, advancement is earned through performance, training, and testing. yes, you get medical care, but that seems like a fair trade in the job that gets you shot at..and that beats your body in ways most people can't imagine. you can get fired and lose all those fancy benefits. they can ask for additional effort from you and not compensate you for that extra work.

now...i'd be willing to compare the military to a dictatorship. one that valued and rewarded the gladiator, but still kept him as a slave.  not socialism.  that doesn't fit at all.

Quote
It is unarguably the most powerful organization in the world, the most expensive

perhaps, for the moment, the most powerful.  certainly not the most expensive.

Quote
Service/ROTC should be a requirement for anybody receiving Pell grant and other federal financial aid for college. Or re-start the CCC and offer young people service in that as an alternative.

i agree.  they have AmeriCorps and I have worked with a lot of those kids.  unfortunately, like most government programs, it is not well run and a great deal of money is wasted.  as a alternate required service it would be ok, but it would have to be tightened up a great deal for the tax payers to come close to getting value in the program.



 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
bluegrass
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« Reply #71 on: August 17, 2012, 07:17:22 PM »

Look up Carl Marx Definition of Socialism:  The unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done.
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kathyp
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« Reply #72 on: August 17, 2012, 08:41:45 PM »

read all of marx/engles and all that they wrote for different populations.  but...i don't think even they envisioned what would be done with what they proposed. 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

and for detail
http://reference.yourdictionary.com/word-definitions/definition-of-socialism.html

you only gave a portion of the definition.

and then we have this, which i suspect is more what most leftist americans are thinking of

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/551073/social-democracy

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/social%20democracy

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/social+democracy

these guys are great fans of obama and i thought you might like this

http://www.isreview.org/issues/61/feat-pushdemsleft.shtml

and this

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/printgroupProfile.asp?grpid=6428
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
bluegrass
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« Reply #73 on: August 18, 2012, 05:48:33 AM »

Regardless of the definition of Socialism. My point remains; That the group who largely is the most vocal against Universal healthcare, Housing allowances, Wellfare etc. Is the same group who predominantly makes up our men and women of the military. They are the group that selects all that for them selves.       
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kathyp
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« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2012, 11:02:13 AM »

Quote
Is the same group who predominantly makes up our men and women of the military. They are the group that selects all that for them selves

i have not heard much from the active military on much of anything.  those using the VA system might argue against it because many have had negative experiences with the VA system. 

they don't select that for themselves.  this is what congress has decided to do as  part of the compensation for the life they lead. you could take away the medical and chow hall and compensating them with union scale wages.  if you paid the hourly, overtime, and tech wages that they'd get on the outside, we would not be able to afford any military.

since universal healthcare, housing, and welfare are given to people who do not perform or produce (other than babies), it's still hard for me to see the comparison.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
bluegrass
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« Reply #75 on: August 18, 2012, 04:45:48 PM »

since universal healthcare, housing, and welfare are given to people who do not perform or produce (other than babies), it's still hard for me to see the comparison.

But just think... those babies grow up, go to college on the federal dollar and than become taxpayers.

The Government funded my Education. They have more than gotten a satisfactory return for that money. I pay about 3/4 the cost of my entire Education in Federal taxes every single year. 
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« Reply #76 on: August 18, 2012, 11:03:32 PM »

Less not compare apples to oranges.  After the US went to an all volunteer military, I think it was Secretary of Defense Casper Weinberger who complained during disarmament negotiations with the Russians that our military personell cost could not be compared to the USSR"s because the Russian Army was (and still is) a draftee army.  Wineberger's counter part agreed and said Russian Army pay was too high as well.  The Russian said they spend 5% of their defence budget on manpower.  At the time (during the Reagan years) the U. S.'s manpower cost ate up over 50% of our defense budget, but that was before the Commander in Chief got around to spending the first nickle on his $60 per gallon on renewable jet fuel.

OK, OK I know, green jet fuel only cost 59 bucks a gallon but I gave the nice Airman who pumpted it the dollar in change from 3 twenties for his tip. 
I'm way cheap.  grin

http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Biofuels/US-Air-Force-Completes-First-Test-Flight-Run-on-New-Alcohol-Based-Jet-Fuel.html
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