Welcome, Guest

Author Topic: Something really confuses me  (Read 501 times)

Offline samuils

  • New Bee
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Gender: Male
Something really confuses me
« on: May 07, 2012, 07:08:27 AM »
Ok, was thinking about regressed bees, so you take bees you do this and that, then they come out from a 4.9 cell.  Supposedly if you place the newly regressed bees into foundationless, you will start getting 4.9 or smaller bees.  Here is where Im confused.  The question is how? Do the smaller bees build smaller cells? It is still the same queen laying in them.  Before she was laying 5.4  bees, now she will start laying 4.9?  So smaller bees build smaller cells, thus making queen lay smaller bees?

Or smaller bees build smaller cells, queen lays same size larvae, but because of smaller cell the gestation period is shorter, thus smaller bees?

Sorry for the rambling, but I was just really curious   

Offline FRAMEshift

  • Super Bee
  • *****
  • Posts: 1681
Re: Something really confuses me
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2012, 08:46:38 AM »
Or smaller bees build smaller cells, queen lays same size larvae, but because of smaller cell the gestation period is shorter, thus smaller bees?
Nothing changes about the eggs the queen is laying.  If you have bees raised in 5.1mm foundation, they are physically unable to build cells as small as 4.9.  They can't turn in a small enough area.  Bees raised on standard foundation will build cells down to 5.1 mm on foundationless frames.  Once you have "regressed bees" which were raised in 4.9 mm comb,  they will draw natural comb on foundationless frames.  Natural comb is a mixture of small cells (down to maybe 4.6mm) and  medium cells and large cells (for drones and honey).   The bees will choose to use different parts of the brood comb at different seasons. 

There have been reports that the gestation time in 4.9 mm cells is slightly shorter than the gestation time in 5.1 mm comb.   This would be significant because varroa mites in worker comb are right at the edge of the time they require to complete one gestational cycle of their own.  That's why the mites prefer drone cell.... because they have a gestation time of 24 days rather than 21 for workers.  A small decrease in gestation time could possibly make a big difference for the mites.   But at this time there still seems to be disagreement about the effect of cell size on gestation time for workers.
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline Michael Bush

  • Universal Bee
  • *******
  • Posts: 14274
  • Gender: Male
    • bushfarms.com
Re: Something really confuses me
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2012, 09:02:05 AM »
>Ok, was thinking about regressed bees, so you take bees you do this and that, then they come out from a 4.9 cell.  Supposedly if you place the newly regressed bees into foundationless, you will start getting 4.9 or smaller bees.  Here is where Im confused.  The question is how? Do the smaller bees build smaller cells?

Yes.  Bees build cells based partly on their body size.

> It is still the same queen laying in them.

Yes.

> Before she was laying 5.4  bees, now she will start laying 4.9?

She was just laying eggs.  The eggs are not 5.4mm or 4.9mm they are just eggs.

>  So smaller bees build smaller cells, thus making queen lay smaller bees?

No, she just lays eggs.  The eggs hatch and because the size of the bee is determined by the size of the cell, the bees are smaller from smaller cells and larger from larger cells.

>Or smaller bees build smaller cells, queen lays same size larvae, but because of smaller cell the gestation period is shorter, thus smaller bees?

Yes.  Not just because of the shorter gestation necessarily, but because of the smaller cell limiting it's growth, but it's true that also limits its gestation.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen

 

anything