How late, is too late?

[manowar422]

About that SUCCESSFUL fall split I'm thinking
of making, please give your thoughts, or ideas.

How late would you wait

My hive is really strong

When split, the hives would have;

20 med. frames each of exactly half the hives
resources (maybe 30 each if I wait long enough).

100 lbs. (a deep super) of capped honey on top
of each brood chamber.

New bought queen for the "new" hive.

[Joseph Clemens]

It depends on the conditions where you keep your bees. Here in Tucson, Arizona I can continue to do many things year-round that can't be done in more northerly climates here in North America, like raise and mate queens.

[stilllearning]

20 frames each of medium for each hive plus a deep super
for each hive that is full will make a couple of excellent hives
if you sucessfully get them both queened
the 20 frames each is  2 medium 10 frame brood boxes plus a full
deep in your area, I would winter that combination any day in the Texas
Panhandel which is much colder than your area in winter, as I remember Dallas area, it doesnt get that cold for too long down there.

[Michael Bush]

I'm not sure I understand "100 lbs. (a deep super) of capped honey on top of each brood chamber. "

If you are considering the mediums the brood chamber and you put the deeps on top of that the cluster will move up into the deep by the end of winter and you'll have a deep brood chamber.  They will do this with or without the queen and if there is an excluder she will die below in the cold.  If you want to use the mediums for the brood chamber, and if you really thing you want the deeps on (I'd just extract them and cut the boxes and frames down to mediums ) then I'd put the deeps on the bottom.

Wintering is not just about stores.  You also need a strong cluster of young bees in each hive.  Are you sure you're not spreading the bees too thin?

A medium sized cluster can overwinter here (in Southeastern Nebraska) on two ten frame mediums full of honey.  Of course you need to make sure they actually go into winter with that.  If they use it up raising fall brood or use it up raising early spring brood, then you'll have to feed somewhere in there.

A ten frame medium is about 50 pounds of honey.

Where are you located?

[manowar422]

My location is listed under my avatar

100lbs. may be a bit optimistic as to the volume of capped honey in
the 2 deep supers on the hive right now, but they are both 10 frames
full to the brim. You folks can better tell me how much honey that is.

Right now there is an excluder on top of 3 mediums, with the two
deeps on top of that. I'm adding a new medium this Sunday and
removing the excluder at that time.

As for "spreading them too thin", what is your method to estimate
the population?

Thanks for everyones comments so far

It was 103F in the Dallas area today

[Michael Bush]

It's hard to describe how to estimate bees.  I guess I'm looking for frames thickly covered in bees.  Of course the cold quickly condensed the cluster down smaller or larger as it gets colder and warmer so it's hard to say.  But in a tight cluster I'd expect a strong Italian hive to go into winter with at least a basketball sized cluster.  I'd expect a strong Buckfast colony to go into winter with a soccer ball sized cluster.  I'd expect a strong Carni colony to go into winter with a slightly smaller than soccer ball sized cluster.  Sometimes the ferals are less than that.  This is based on observing strong hives of these races and what THEY cut back to going into winter.

[manowar422]

I intend to do a complete inspection on Sunday when I add the new
medium. I'll be taking lots of pictures for my records.

If I post a link to pictures of the middle 5 frames of each one
of the boxes that are now below the excluder, could you tell by
looking at the pictures if the hive would be a good candidate
for a late split?

As far as a queen for the split, I was thinking about one of Michael's survivor queens

[Ross]

I'd love to know how your getting that much honey in this drought.  I'm 30 miles from you.

[manowar422]

I'm lucky to be in the big city with lots of flower gardens, commercial
buildings with nice landscaping and a couple of retail nurseries
within foraging distance of the hives location. I would just be guessing,
but most of it is probably irrigated.

However, I'd be willing to trade 100lbs. of capped honey per year for
Greenville's lower crime rate, cleaner air, lower taxes, lower auto
 insurance rates and a little peace and quiet.

[Ross]

It is nice to on 11 acres with a 2 acre pool, on a dead end road, 4 miles from town.  There's lots of land out here and I-30 runs both ways

[manowar422]

MAN, that sounds nice Ross

When my bride & I get these last two teens through college
will be looking for a nice little place out that way.

I want to someday bushhog my grass instead of mowing,
weeding and trimming it