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Author Topic: Do you quarantine your caught swarms?  (Read 2639 times)
Intheswamp
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« on: March 30, 2012, 10:21:44 AM »

I've been told to quarantine any caught swarms.  The place that I have to quarantine them at is about seven miles from my house/apiary.  I have actually thought about putting an outyard there being as it borders on a sizeable swamp (Intheswamp Smiley ).

Anyhow, do you or don't you quarantine your caught swarms?  If so, how long do you quarantine them before you add them to one of your regular beeyards?

Of course I need to catch a swarm first, but I want to have a plan when (not if! Wink ) it happens.

Ed
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"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev
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« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2012, 10:27:53 AM »

I never do, but I may be the dummy here.
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Intheswamp
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 10:38:19 AM »

yockey5, are there any beeyards around where you trap your swarms?  I figure that if you're pretty sure that they're feral/survivor bees then what's the point in quarantining...they're survivors, right?...so they probably should be healthy.   A bee tree that I'm setting up some traps nearby is approximately 4 miles from one known beeyard and 6.4 miles from another one.  These bees have been in the tree for the last 5+ years so I feel that they're healthy...it appears to be a good strong hive with *lots* of traffic in and out.  I'm still debating a quarantine yard, though....the newbee nervousness in me.  Undecided

Ed
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American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev
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« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 11:47:30 AM »

i don't and i know that plenty of mine come out of pollination hives during berry season. 
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« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2012, 01:50:54 PM »


I've been told to quarantine any caught swarms.  

Ed

Do you quarantine your caught swarms?
I do not.

Can you tell us why  huh To quarantine swarms.



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« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2012, 02:58:55 PM »

Can you tell us why  huh To quarantine swarms.

   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley

The reason I understand is to help prevent the swarm from possibly bringing disease into your apiary, in the case that they are diseased, naturally. 

For what reason do you think there would be to quarantine them?

Ed
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"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev
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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2012, 03:24:15 PM »


The reason I understand is to help prevent the swarm from possibly bringing disease into your apiary, in the case that they are diseased, naturally.  

For what reason do you think there would be to quarantine them?

Ed

First of all I put  swarm(s) on foundation or foundation-less what kind of disease(s) can the hive get Huh  

I would say the same for bait hive(s). I do not use comb for bait.

If you do this I do not know of any disease(s) the hive will get. I dunno

    

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« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2012, 03:47:35 PM »

I worried about the same thing on a cut out I did that had SHB and my one hive in my yard did not.  I just decided to spend a bit more time in the cutout hive to kill adults and installed beetle blasters to catch the ones I don't squish.  I find one or two adults once a week and none in the traps.  *fingers crossed* original hive doesn't come down with them.

CV Bees
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« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2012, 04:01:44 PM »

I worried about the same thing on a cut out I did that had SHB and my one hive in my yard did not.  I just decided to spend a bit more time in the cutout hive to kill adults and installed beetle blasters to catch the ones I don't squish.  I find one or two adults once a week and none in the traps.  *fingers crossed* original hive doesn't come down with them.

CV Bees

stay on topic
This is about swarm(s) not cut outs or trap outs. I'v seen very few SHB in Massachusetts.
Can SHB be in swarm(s) Huh


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Intheswamp
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« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2012, 04:06:14 PM »


The reason I understand is to help prevent the swarm from possibly bringing disease into your apiary, in the case that they are diseased, naturally.  

For what reason do you think there would be to quarantine them?

Ed

First of all I put  swarm(s) on foundation or foundation-less what kind of disease(s) can the hive get Huh  
If you do this I do not know of any disease(s) the hive will get. I dunno

    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
Hmm, I'm just a newbee Jim and I certainly don't have much experience at all.  For some reason I had it in my mind that they gorged on honey before swarming.  That the honey was used among other things to stimulate wax making to be used in building new comb in the new hive.  I've seen it often stated that open feeding of honey bees and also letting bees "clean up" equipment are two ways to spread disease.  You are convinced that possibly disease carrying honey that they bring with them will not pass on to the wax comb nor the bees?  Does the honey sanitize/kill any disease spores?  This is very interesting.  I take it that the cautions about letting bees clean up extractors and equipment is not to be worried about?

I am using starter strips of small cell foundation in my swarm traps.  The strips are long enough to reach below the top wire on my medium frames.  I figure this will get them start making some straight comb.  Below the wire they can have the open area to build what they want to.  No old comb so whatever they put in there will be there...diseased or not.

Ed
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"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev
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« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2012, 08:16:13 PM »

"yockey5, are there any beeyards around where you trap your swarms?"


Yes, there is a bee haver (never works them, or pulls honey) about 1/2 mile from me and feral bees 1/4 mile south of me.
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« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2012, 09:23:30 PM »

Never quarantined a hive, or a swarm.   If you caught it around you, then anything the bees had would be in your area already.  And never forget about feral hives.   There are more feral hives around you than you think.   
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2012, 09:31:10 PM »

I was wondering the same thing myself.  I'm hoping to get either a swarm or maybe a cut/trap out this summer and I was a bit concerned about bringing something home with me.  I’ve heard it recommended that you clean the hive tools with alcohol between yards, it seemed to make sense that a quarantine would be in order.  But if you all haven't had any problems, I likely won't waste my time doing it either unless I see something that looks funny at the time.
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Intheswamp
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« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2012, 01:21:23 PM »

Never quarantined a hive, or a swarm.   If you caught it around you, then anything the bees had would be in your area already.  And never forget about feral hives.   There are more feral hives around you than you think.   
Not having to set up a quarantine yard would be great.  Actually, the place I had that could be used for quarantining I'd thought about using for an outyard...later on, of course.  Wink

It is said that every colony has foulbrood spores but that it's when something severely weakens the hive that it raises it's ugly head.  I guess if the swarm colony gets off to a good start and stays healthy there shouldn't be any issues, eh?

Well, from yours and pretty much everyone else's comments I won't worry about the quarantining issue.  Let the swarms come!!!  grin

Ed 

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"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev
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« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2012, 02:09:00 PM »

I was wondering the same thing myself.  I'm hoping to get either a swarm or maybe a cut/trap out this summer and I was a bit concerned about bringing something home with me.  I’ve heard it recommended that you clean the hive tools with alcohol between yards, it seemed to make sense that a quarantine would be in order.  But if you all haven't had any problems, I likely won't waste my time doing it either unless I see something that looks funny at the time.

 I would and do quarantined a cut/trap out or a new hive/nuc to me and nu-know (use) woodware, comb,etc . Just my $0.02


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« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2012, 02:29:47 PM »

Most of the spores and contaminants are in the combs.
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« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2012, 04:49:08 PM »

I do not quarantine the swarm but I do seal them inside the new hive for the first couple of days.  I feed them of course and after I see some comb being drawn the I open the door.
I have had swarms leave a brand new hive and go elsewhere. 
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« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2012, 06:31:44 PM »

Most of the spores and contaminants are in the combs.
If the spores can transfer to the brood can they transfer to the honey?
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"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev
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« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2012, 07:38:41 PM »

Most of the spores and contaminants are in the combs.
If the spores can transfer to the brood can they transfer to the honey?

Yes I will not feed nu-know  honey.


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« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2012, 07:57:34 PM »

Most of the spores and contaminants are in the combs.
If the spores can transfer to the brood can they transfer to the honey?

Yes I will not feed nu-know  honey.
Hmm, now I'm back at the beginning again...  So the swarms *can* bring the spores (disease?) with them in the honey they bring from their mother hive.  If they use this honey to begin building new comb with aren't they effectively seeding the colony's new home with the spores?   Huh

Btw Jim, what is "nu-know  honey"?

Ed
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"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev
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« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2012, 08:31:59 PM »

Most of the spores and contaminants are in the combs.
If the spores can transfer to the brood can they transfer to the honey?

Yes I will not feed nu-know  honey.
Hmm, now I'm back at the beginning again...  So the swarms *can* bring the spores (disease?) with them in the honey they bring from their mother hive.  If they use this honey to begin building new comb with aren't they effectively seeding the colony's new home with the spores?   Huh

Btw Jim, what is "nu-know  honey"?

Ed

honey not from me.


   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2012, 10:14:46 PM »

Thanks for the definition.

What about the statements I made about the spores being in the honey that the swarm carries to their new hive and use to make comb with?  If the spores can transfer to the honey then when the swarm prepares to swarm the bees load up with the spore-laced honey.  Got any comments on that?   huh

Ed
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"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev
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« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2012, 10:35:50 PM »


there is little you can do because drones travel from hive to hive in the summer.  If your bees dont have a problem and the ones around your area do chances are yours will get it too.  If you see disease or any other problem treat the hive or hives involved.  You def dont want to bring foulbrood into your apairy.  Just make sure when u do cut outs the comb you bring them home with doesnt have sick brood. Chris
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« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2012, 02:53:16 PM »

Thanks for the definition.

What about the statements I made about the spores being in the honey that the swarm carries to their new hive and use to make comb with?  If the spores can transfer to the honey then when the swarm prepares to swarm the bees load up with the spore-laced honey.  Got any comments on that?   huh

Ed

The  theory is bees use up the honey thy are carrying in making comb or feed for than self
This is why you use clean boxes and frames and use  foundation or foundation-less  DO NOT GIVE COMB.
the man who told me this was Charles Mraz of Middlebury Vermont, USA

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=35250600
 "drones travel from hive to hive "

Yes drones will do this but thy do not feed brood but robber bees will got in to the honey so wax moths or SHB are not a bad thing some times.

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« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2012, 10:29:52 PM »

But Jim, do you see where I'm coming from?  If the bees in the swarm gorge on honey (that has disease spores in it) and when they get to the nice, new, clean swarm trap they beginning making comb...with spore-laced honey.  The wax they make from the tainted honey won't have the spores in it?  I guess the process from honey to wax kills the spores? Huh  Whatever the case, I won't worry about swarms, but sounds like it's a good idea to be careful with cut-outs.

Ed
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"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev
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« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2012, 11:49:06 PM »

AFB (spores) is a brood disease not at aduit disease.


    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2012, 10:25:47 AM »

I worried about the same thing on a cut out I did that had SHB and my one hive in my yard did not.  I just decided to spend a bit more time in the cutout hive to kill adults and installed beetle blasters to catch the ones I don't squish.  I find one or two adults once a week and none in the traps.  *fingers crossed* original hive doesn't come down with them.

CV Bees
CVBees, I figured I'd pass this on to you.  Yesterday I had two swarms from my beeyard (didn't have but three hives  Undecided ).  It was a drawn out process retrieving them from a briar patch.  When I went to one of the boxes I was trying to catch them in I noticed a beetle on the inner cover!!!  It failed the pressure test, btw.  The box had been sitting there probably about three hours at that time with bees crawling all over/inside it.  Whether the beetle flew in with the swarm (I had killed a few beetles in the hive they swarmed from) or whether it was just a beetle that found the swarm in that length of time I don't know.  I just thought it was notable that the beetle was there that quick with new equipment being used.  So, swarms *may* include beetles...who knows?

Ed
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"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev
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« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2012, 12:50:56 PM »

I considered doing so but came to the conclusion that since I will not treat and I want survivor stock that is would be a waste of effort. Basically it boils down to this.

Foulbroods; I fully inspect all cutouts for signs of disease. If in doubt they don't come home with me. Seriously I have never found active foulbrood so not a real worry.

Mites; all bees have mites and since I refuse to treat they might as well live or die.

Viruses; I have no way of testing for this so see above.


Nosema; more of the above.

SHB; the darn things are everywhere. Your only hope is full sun and strong colonies and no amount of quarantining can stop the beetle. Seriously, I am finding the little bastards in swarms.

Now I am developing an issue that might require quarantining and that is bringing newly hived cutouts and small swarms to my yard. I almost always feed cutouts and some of the small swarms just long enough to get them back on their feet while they are recovering.. This has led to some robbing issues. As my stock of strong survivor colonies grow I am going to look into setting up what I will call an ICU yard for my cut out colonies
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« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2012, 09:18:31 AM »

Ok, I'm resurrecting an older thread here.  David, thanks for that last post.  I like the idea of an ICU yard, I am considering something of the sort, or even maybe a "wild" yard where I carry swarms and cut-outs to and allow them to build up (hopefully) without a lot of beek pressure on them...within reason, of course.  My little piece of swamp has a lot of south Alabama bottom land to it so would be interesting to see how the bees do.  The area that could possibly get decent sunshine is probably only 1/8 mile from the dirt road frontage and it would need a few pines dropped to insure a fair amount of sunshine.  The problem is that that area lays on the side of a hill and would/could be seen from the road fairly easily.   I might have to set up some type of security fence on the road-side of them.

Back to the original topic...  I know I seemed to be stuck on the idea that AFB could be transported with the bees when they swarmed and still believe that even though  I've become comfortable with the idea that the possibility of that happening is small.  I was reading yesterday in the May 2012 issue of ABJ and came upon this statement by Dr. Larry Connor on page 453.  So my newbee mind wasn't so terribly "out there in left field". Wink

Risks of Swarms
   There is a small but statistically significant chance that swarms will carry spores of American foulbrood (AFB) in the honey in their stomachs.  Some beekeepers put antibiotics into the sugar syrup as a preventative.  Rather than do that, I watch the brood combs very carefully for the appearance of any diseases, eliminating the swarm if I see AFB.

Connors doesn't say anything about quarantining the swarms, though.

Anyhow, just thought I'd pass this on.
Ed
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« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2012, 10:15:17 AM »

It says here that adult bees can carry AFB spores.   http://www.countryrubes.com/images/American_Foulbrood_AFB_pdf.pdf     It doesn't specify where the bee carries the spores - outside or inside the body.       It makes sense that a bee is a vector to transfer the disease.  That is one reason why open feeding of honey is illegal here.

I have also heard that SHB travel with swarms.

Anyway it does make sense to me to quarantine a swarm if you have a location for it, until there is brood you can test for AFB.  It means extra work, though.  Does anyone have experience with having AFB in a hive that was caught as a swarm?

Lone
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