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Author Topic: IPCC and Politics  (Read 5320 times)
zippelk
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« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2012, 11:31:25 AM »

http://www.infowars.com/climate-change-skepticism-a-sickness-that-must-be-treated-says-professor/

this is not a place i'd go for most of my info, but this chick is from oregon and has been a prof down south at a state school.  that means she's been able to indoctrinate a new generation of "scientists" with her prejudice.


An unwillingness to identify and avoid life-threatening situations IS a mental illness. Science is an attempt to be absent of prejudice; I hope such intellect is spread far and wide.
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zippelk
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« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2012, 11:33:54 AM »

This article cites falsification in scientists’ publications at a low of 2% with the incidence as high as possibly 34%.

Thanks for the beautiful example of the ambiguity of statistics! One could read this abstract and say 2% of scientists lie, which suggests 1000s and 1000s in total around the world.  Or…one could read this as they could only identify 7 cases of fraud. Do you know what N is?
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zippelk
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« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2012, 11:36:17 AM »



That’s one smart lady!

told you fascist is a better descriptor for this admin.....


I do not think that word means what you think it means...
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zippelk
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« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2012, 11:38:30 AM »

I'm probably the greenest member of Beemaster.  If not the greenest, pretty near the top.

I'd like to compare notes someday. I suspect you and I have far more in common than you'd think  grin
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zippelk
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« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2012, 11:42:17 AM »

Beyondthesidewalks,
 applause fishhit applause cheer
If the pendelem doesn't swing soon, we all may be off the grid and not by choice.
Jim

Are you saying that if the guys who bank on unsustainable fuel don’t get power back from the guys who talk about sustainable fuel, we will run out of power? Interesting. That doesn’t seem ironic?
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zippelk
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« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2012, 11:57:14 AM »

To talk about bees again...   grin

If the climate scientists said they had significant credible data to suggest a pending shift in the gulf stream such that, while average global temps will be higher in the winter of 2012-13, our winter here will see record lows (standard fare for climate change models), would you (a) err on the side of caution, giving your bees more stores...honey, syrup, candy or whatever you use, insulate and wrap them up tightly, etc. (as well as preparing for yourself!), or (b), immediately suspect their motives, questioning whether they are funded by 'big sugar' and completely ignore their advice, wishfully thinking that they are just fabricating their data?
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kathyp
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« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2012, 12:35:51 PM »

Quote
An unwillingness to identify and avoid life-threatening situations IS a mental illness.

perhaps we should do as the old catholic church did when people disagreed with their "science".  what arrogance!

Quote
Of course they have looked at much older data as well to decipher trends, but the past 150 years is key.

sure, because there is no evidence of climate change before then.  no ice age.  no warm periods.
 what they did was pick a time period that fit their agenda.


Quote
Evolution is truth

there are a whole bunch of geneticists who are beginning to buck against the theory of evolution as it has been taught.  this is another "science" that needs to be looked at again.  it is likely that we will end up with some theory of adaptation rather than evolution.  at any rate, it is not settled science and certainly not truth.

Quote
I do not think that word means what you think it means...

i know exactly what it means.  if you study pre ww2 germany and the relationships between the government and business, people, etc. i have never seen a government that as closely resembles nazi germnay in the 30's as ours does now.

Quote
If the climate scientists said they had significant credible data to suggest a pending shift in the gulf stream such that, while average global temps will be higher in the winter of 2012-13, our winter here will see record lows (standard fare for climate change models), would you (a) err on the side of caution, giving your bees more stores...honey, syrup, candy or whatever you use, insulate and wrap them up tightly, etc. (as well as preparing for yourself!), or (b), immediately suspect their motives, questioning whether they are funded by 'big sugar' and completely ignore their advice, wishfully thinking that they are just fabricating their data?[/quote

sure, but would i put my families finances in danger on that info?  no.  would i demand that others help me care for my bees?  no.  would i ask the government by way of the tax payer to pitch in?  no.

you have taken a particular point of view based on the data that you choose to believe.  that's fine.  you do not have the right to demand that we all believe that data when there is opposing data to consider.  
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
bwdenen
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« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2012, 10:06:58 PM »

BTSW... You have a numbe of posts on a lot of subjects.  You seemed pretty conservative with an edge of sorts I guess, so your statement regarding a lean toward liberatarian makes sense; I too have that slant at times. Your early posts on this very topic seemed to indicate you were sceptical of the junk that was being pushed in the name of science.  Sorry if read that wrong.  Didn't mean to offend or infer anything negative.
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zippelk
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« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2012, 12:22:51 AM »

Kathy, sorry if you misunderstood me. I did not say that anyone who disagrees with me should be institutionalized. I said, as you quote: “An unwillingness to identify and avoid life-threatening situations IS a mental illness.” Does anyone debate this? We might disagree whether current climate change is anthropogenic or a significant threat, but I have to think that we all agree that all credible threats are worth investigating thoroughly and mitigating where appropriate; outright denial is not useful. No arrogance implied; I just worry about anyone who does not worry.

Regarding evolution, I have never met anyone who said they did not believe in evolution who actually knew what it was, and I have never met anyone who, when told what evolution really is, still said they did not believe. Can we talk?  grin I really think that you are mistaken if you think there is a major contingent of geneticists who don’t believe in evolution: this is literally incredible to me, but please tell me what you know!

Regarding fascism, do you really think that the Obama administration is trying to do away with competing parties? is pro-eugenics (he's a minority!)? is xenophobic (I thought his critics accused him of being the polar opposite!)? pro violence/war? took power by military force? is anti socialist/communist (again, most of his critics say he is pro!)? is anti-union? We must have very different dictionaries!  You say “i have never seen a government that as closely resembles nazi germnay in the 30's as ours does now.” I think you might be surprised to hear that most of Obama’s biggest fans, or those who were most hopeful at the beginning of his tenure, are more disappointed than anyone about his performance in the past few years. Not only didn’t he make all the big changes we hoped he might make, he hasn’t really done much of anything.  Really, how have things changed since he has been in office? Seems like same sh!t different day to me.

Finally, I must say again, I am not asking you to put your finances in danger, pay for other people, or accept gov bailout. I hope our gov will provide greener options without additional cost. Also, I do not exclude any data; I consider it all. And finally, I do not demand that you believe anything, I only ask politely that you consider real facts and not be duped by people with ulterior motives and finances at stake.

cheers
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kathyp
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« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2012, 11:50:02 AM »

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Does anyone debate this?

perhaps it was the context....as you praise the woman recommending treatment of those who disagree.

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I really think that you are mistaken if you think there is a major contingent of geneticists who don’t believe in evolution:

this is what i said:
Quote
there are a whole bunch of geneticists who are beginning to buck against the theory of evolution as it has been taught.  this is another "science" that needs to be looked at again.  it is likely that we will end up with some theory of adaptation rather than evolution.  at any rate, it is not settled science and certainly not truth.

much of what i was taught about evolution those many years ago, has already been re-written or found to be false.  while the word evolution evokes a sort of religious gut flush in the believers, it is a theory.  like all theories, it needs to be proved or adjusted according to facts.


Quote
Regarding fascism, do you really think that the Obama administration is trying to do away with competing parties?

sorry, i assumed you were familiar with late 20's and early 30's economics of nazi germany.  the other stuff had nothing to do with the economics.

as for fascism and communism,   there's very little difference between the two at their apex.  if you read the work up the the german- russia non aggression pact, they said as much. 

Quote
Finally, I must say again, I am not asking you to put your finances in danger, pay for other people, or accept gov bailout. I hope our gov will provide greener options without additional cost.

the government produces nothing and earns nothing.  everything it has, it has taken from those who do produce and earn.  the government can't provide anything without first taking from another.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2012, 01:13:41 PM »

if you study pre ww2 germany and the relationships between the government and business, people, etc. i have never seen a government that as closely resembles nazi germnay in the 30's as ours does now.
LOL!  Have you had your water well checked lately  lau
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zippelk
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« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2012, 02:19:52 PM »

Kathy,

Actually, the major concepts of evolution have not changed in decades, probably since the discovery of DNA!  I started a new coffee house thread to discuss it: http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,36755.0.html. I hope you read the post and let me know if you still don't believe in evolution.

Regarding Obama, I guess our dictionaries are very different! Anyway, can you please explain to me how our government today, including laws and other policies, differs from when Bush left office?  I really struggle to list any significant changes, so I wonder why someone such as yourself is so upset by them.  Really, what has he done?  He took care of some unfinished business he got from Bush (Osama and Saddam) plus a bonus (Momar); hard to imagine conservatives criticizing him for that. He did sink Don't Ask Don't Tell, but that was with advisement and consent from top military brass, and he has done nothing to support gay marriage (which should make conservatives happy). He tried to reform health care, but that will likely get sunk before any of it has a chance to get enacted. And he rejected the northern part of the pipeline so we couldn't bring a bunch of Canadian crude to the US for refinement. You could argue that doing so keeps us dependent on foreign oil, but first you will have to explain to me why we still export most (all?) of the crude we refine in this country if we need it so badly.  cheers

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kingbee
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« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2012, 09:17:01 PM »

... Regarding fascism, do you really think that the Obama administration is trying to do away with competing parties? is pro-eugenics ...? is xenophobic ...? pro violence/war? took power by military force? is anti socialist/communist ...? ...You say “i have never seen a government that as closely resembles nazi germnay in the 30's as ours does now.” I think you might be surprised to hear that most of Obama’s biggest fans... are more disappointed than anyone... I hope our gov will provide greener options ...

Some of Hitler's biggest fans were more disappointed than anyone at Hitler's policies.  One of the German's unions most cherished dream in 1932 was the creation of a National Mayday Holiday.  Hitler promised them one while campaigning for votes.  Then on May first 1933 Hitler gave the unions their Mayday.  Then the next day on 02-05-1933 Hitler issued an edict disbanding all German Unions and seizing their funds.  You see, there was no longer any need for unions in Germany because now the German government did the labor negotiating with German Industry, not the unions.  Similar to what kathyp stated.
 
The list of rabid revolutionary socialist Nazis is long and varied, this list includes names like Herman Goering, Ernst Rhom, the two Strasser Brothers and other founding or promant members of Storm Troopres or the Nazi party.  Only the extreme environmentalist Herman Goering remained alive or living in Nazi controlled territory one year after Hitler seized total power.  One conservative, Count Arco-Valley spent 7 years in Hitler's concentration camps and was released by the Alies at the end of WWII only to be run down and killed by an American Jeep.

In late June and early July 1934 Hitler used "Operations Hummingbird" to rid himself of Nazi National Socialist radicals that didn't fit into his plans for the future as well as an excuse for killing prominent conservatives who all opposed Hitler. 

I do however think that the only GREEN jobs that will emerge from the Obama administration will be wearing OD GREEN and body armor.  You can bet on it.
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beyondthesidewalks
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« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2012, 12:03:38 AM »

"Some of Hitler's biggest fans were more disappointed than anyone at Hitler's policies."

It was the same for Lenin, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung and Castro.  Many of Obama's staunchest supporters are very upset at the lack of change.  They feel like he has let them down.
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kingbee
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« Reply #54 on: May 07, 2012, 03:36:03 PM »

.. explain to me why we still export most (all?) of the crude we refine in this country if we need it so badly...

It is an economic concept called ADDING VALUE.  That is also why at one time we exported silicone computer chips to the rest of the world but not raw sand!!!  Or why, the French exports fine Champagne to our shores and not raw fresh grapes.
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kingbee
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« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2012, 03:38:43 PM »

T. Boon Pickens is back in the news concerning natural gas.  Besides owning a lot of natural gas himself, Mr. Pickens is so full of natural gas he‘s ready to burst.  This will be fun to watch.  We’ll see which of our posters and Congressmen are really Capitalist and which of them are in fact National Socialist or
International Fascist at heart.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/22/adding-fuel-to-capitol-hill-fire/

Where do you or your views fit in with this?  huh  Undecided
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kathyp
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« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2012, 04:27:57 PM »

he's interested in his bottom line and considering how badly he did with wind, i'd not take his advice. 

government has a place in energy.  it is in infrastructure, leasing lands, etc.  government does not belong in the energy speculation business by way of "investing" my money in tech that may or may not work, or be affordable.  that's what private capitol is for.  to that extent, i applaud T. Boon for putting his money where his mouth was...but better his loss than mine!

if government would get the heck out of the way (EPA) and let private capitol work, we might find that some of these green things would come to pass.  if they work, if they are profitable, if they can be efficiently supplied to the public, private money will flow....as long as they don't have to worry about being tied up in court for years by tree huggers or the government.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2012, 08:18:39 PM »

Well said, BeyondTSW.  While scientists are probably more objective than most; they are still human and prone to stubbornness.  If you examine the scientific beliefs before a major discovery, the majority of scientists at the time were WRONG.  The structure of the atom is a good example.  Until Rutherford shot alpha particles at a thin foil of gold, nobody on Earth ever dreamed the atom was mostly empty space with a nucleus of positive charges.  Neils Bohr then devised quantum mechanics to explain the bizarre dynamics observed by Rutherford.   However even Einstein rejected some of the fundamental tenants of quantum theory.  So if Bohr and Einstein couldn’t agree after seeing the same data, what are the odds that all these CO2 greenhouse advocates are 100% correct?

I still think one has to keep an open mind on this topic since we DON'T HAVE ALL THE DATA.  The data from the Sun is lacking and the data from Plantary Albedo is lacking (thanks to Bush Jr canceling that satellite).

Bluebee
we now have all the data thanks to GWB, just keep in mind that when NASA says there seems to be a "far less"
they are just trying to save face, Anthropogenic global warming In short, the central premise of alarmist global warming theory is that carbon dioxide emissions should be directly and indirectly trapping a certain amount of heat in the earth’s atmosphere and preventing it from escaping into space. Real-world measurements, however, show far less heat is being trapped in the earth’s atmosphere than the alarmist computer models predict, and far more heat is escaping into space than the alarmist computer models predict.
The satellite data now confirms the co2 in the atmosphere does not block the heat from escaping the earth
Bob
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2011/07/27/new-nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-in-global-warming-alarmism/
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kingbee
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« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2012, 01:54:50 AM »

We should memorize all the words uttered by President Dwight D. Eisenhower  during his final speech as Commander and Chief, not just the following sound bite.

“In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.”

Ike’s words have been seized on to condemn America’s policy of safety through deterrence.  I admit that President Eisenhower was in a unique position to see or understand, “The POTENTIAL for the disastrous rise of misplaced power…” whether presented by the armaments industry or not.  (The capitals used for emphases are my own.)

When it came to goring someone’s political ox President Eisenhower did not care who he offended, he cared about America and her best interest FIRST and foremost.  Unfortunately, many of my country men chose to ignore the rest of Ike’s farewell address.  One reason is the elapsed time but a more important reason is selective hearing or even  an active contempt for the words of a true American patriot coupled with a desire to damage the United States’ national security.

In my opinion it is telling that the people who are the most likely to embrace the “Military Industrial Complex” part of Ike’s speech are the same ones who willfully ignore the rest of his address.  One reason for this is the role that Anthropogenic Climate Change or “man caused global warming” has assumed in International Socialism circles and these peoples quest to institute “Global Income Redistribution” at your families’ and the United States of America’s expense.  Because immediately following his “Military Industrial Complex” warning Ike spoke the following words. 

“Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades. In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers. The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present -- and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite….” DDE 01-17-1961

I vote that we name the above portion of Ike’s speech “Eisenhower’s Leftist College Professor Lifetime Full Employment Speech!”  The reason is because that is what anthropogenic global climate change… a.k.a. “Global warming” is, an international leftist idea that is being used to provide both a prestigious career path, and lifetime government funded employment to those who wish to destroy America’s economy.  By destroying America’s economy they hope to build a virtual Berlin Wall around the USA.  The purpose of this wall is not to keep Americans imprisoned but to prevent our example of freedom and success from reaching the Earth’s most retched poor and inspiring them to roll up their sleeves and to go forth and do as we have done.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/alarmists-keep-ringing-the-bell/story-e6frg6zo-1225857624661
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Vance G
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« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2012, 10:23:56 AM »

I just want to know why Leif Ericksons sheep pastures are still under a glacier and how Otsie got under one with all this warming?   28 times during the Pleistocene it has been warmer than it is now.  Vhat Giffs???
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