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Author Topic: 8 Frame Size Standard  (Read 2160 times)

Offline beyondthesidewalks

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8 Frame Size Standard
« on: March 11, 2012, 11:26:32 PM »
I've cut down all of my old 10 frame woodenware to 8 frame in the past few years.  Somehow, I don't remember how, I came to the size being 13.75" on the width of the 8 frame hive.  Today I decided to order some 8 frame woodenware and I have the choice of 13.75", 13.875", 14", or 14.25".  Before I order I'm wondering if any of these sizes have become standardized to some degree or am I always going to have to worry about mixing and matching?  I'm looking at Western Bee gear because I've used them in the past and been very happy with their stuff.  Apparently, they can match up with anyone else's woodenware.  I'm just wondering if everyone else in the industry is standardizing on one of these four sizes.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: 8 Frame Size Standard
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2012, 11:43:21 PM »
Brushy Mt. and Miller Bee Supply and most Southern suppliers are 13 3/4".  Mann Lake and  Betterbee are 14".  All of mine are 13 3/4".  I think the 13 7/8" ones are a compromise that works with either of those two sizes pretty well.  The 14 1/4" would easily take 9 frames but other than Western Bee Supply (who will make it whatever size you want) I don't know of anyone using that size.  I don't know why there isn't a standard.  Pick one and stick with it.  :)
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Offline bwdenen

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Re: 8 Frame Size Standard
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2012, 11:52:15 PM »
I ran into the same thing when I started.  I wanted to get an idea of the quality of all the different suppliers so to get a comparison I purchased 5 - 8 frame supers from 4 different suppliers to see which one I liked the best.  They were not all the same size.  The Mann Lake boxes hung over, the rest fit fine.  I did find the ones I liked best and buy them all there now.

Offline Intheswamp

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Re: 8 Frame Size Standard
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2012, 09:52:17 AM »
Here's a copy and paste of some info I gathered up when I was trying to get my equipment gathered up and didn't want to run into problems matching up equipment size.  Maybe it will help you....  Ed

Quote from: Intheswamp
Ok, here's what I've gleaned so far regarding width of 8-frame boxes coming from the different companies. If anybody has any information to add such as other vendors sizes or corrections to my list feel free to speak up.

Rossman 13-3/4"
Kelleys 13-3/4" (ok, I just looked and Kelleys is stating 13-13/16")
Miller 13-3/4"
Brushy Mountain 13-3/4"
Dadant 13-3/4"
Mann Lake 14"
Betterbee 14"
Western Bee state standard as being 13-3/4" but will cut to your specs.

That's all I have info for. I'm taking it that the associated wooden ware (bottom boards, tops, etc.) should interchange between the companies with the same box widths.

Length shouldn't be a factor should it?...being as standard length is 19-7/8"? Or, is there differences encountered there, too?

Thanks,

Ed
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Offline beyondthesidewalks

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Re: 8 Frame Size Standard
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 11:45:33 AM »
The 10 frame standard width is 16.25". 
Subtract 1.5" for the two 3/4" sides and that leaves 14.75" for an internal width.
Divide that by 10 and I get 1.475" per frame width.  (That's almost 1.5".)
Multiply 1.475" by 8 and you get a 11.8" internal width for an 8 frame hive, keeping the same dimensions as a 10 frame.
Add the 1.5" back for the sides and you get a total width of 13.3", maintaining the same spacing as a 10 frame hive.
That means we have about .45" (almost 1/2") extra space in the 13.75" wide 8 frame equipment.
The 14" wide equipment would have almost an extra 3/4" inches.
Feel free to correct me if I've made an error.  Just wondering how they arrived at 13.75" and really amazed that some vendors are using 14" for 8 frame equipment.

Thanks for the feedback.  Looks like most of the vendors are using 13.75" as a standard with a few exceptions.  So I'll stay with what I have.

Offline Intheswamp

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Re: 8 Frame Size Standard
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 01:45:42 PM »
Yelp, lots of room left in an 8-frame box.  Some folks will use 9 frames in them, especially if they trim them down and make them narrower.

Ed
www.beeweather.com 
American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev

"Always go to other people’s funerals, otherwise they wont come to yours." - Yogi Berra

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: 8 Frame Size Standard
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2012, 05:16:39 AM »
If you were arriving at a width I would do this:

10 frame hive internal (as you stated) 14.75".
10 frames at 1 3/8" (1.375) = 13.71.  This leaves a gap of 1" left over.

If you take 8 frames at 1 3/8" (1.375) (the actual space they take) you get 11" and if you add that same 1" gap you get 12".  Add back the 1 1/2" for the outside measurement and you get 13 1/2". 

They just gave you an extra 1/4".

Michael Bush
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My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline Jim 134

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Re: 8 Frame Size Standard
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2012, 07:21:37 AM »
"Tell me and I'll forget,show me and I may  remember,involve me and I'll understand"
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Offline Country Heart

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Re: 8 Frame Size Standard
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2012, 01:09:06 AM »
Here's a copy and paste of some info I gathered up when I was trying to get my equipment gathered up and didn't want to run into problems matching up equipment size.  Maybe it will help you....  Ed

Quote from: Intheswamp
Ok, here's what I've gleaned so far regarding width of 8-frame boxes coming from the different companies. If anybody has any information to add such as other vendors sizes or corrections to my list feel free to speak up.

Rossman 13-3/4"
Kelleys 13-3/4" (ok, I just looked and Kelleys is stating 13-13/16")
Miller 13-3/4"
Brushy Mountain 13-3/4"
Dadant 13-3/4"
Mann Lake 14"
Betterbee 14"
Western Bee state standard as being 13-3/4" but will cut to your specs.

That's all I have info for. I'm taking it that the associated wooden ware (bottom boards, tops, etc.) should interchange between the companies with the same box widths.

Length shouldn't be a factor should it?...being as standard length is 19-7/8"? Or, is there differences encountered there, too?

Thanks,

Ed

Thanks for the comparison info.  Now I understand why my Kelley ventilation is a bit short on my Mann Lake boxes.
Good to know what fits best with what.

Offline bwdenen

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Re: 8 Frame Size Standard
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2012, 06:20:28 PM »
Read the "Bee Space Article" on Beeculture.com website.  There is more information than you want to know about equipment sizes.  Made my head hurt.

Offline fish_stix

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Re: 8 Frame Size Standard
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2012, 02:10:15 AM »
A little headwork should convince you to use standard, NOT custom cut sizes. One of these days some of you will be ordering boxes by the hundreds or thousands. Think it might make a difference to be standardized? As far as the slight differences in 8 frame equipment, a 14" box will sit on a 13 3/4" box just fine. Amazingly enough, a 13 3/4" box will sit on a 14" box just fine too! You're splitting hairs here folks!!!!!!!!!!

Offline BlevinsBees

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Re: 8 Frame Size Standard
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2012, 04:49:14 AM »
I like the 8 frame Mann Lake because you can put 9 brood frames in if you want. In the honey supers I use 8 frames but space them evenly so the comb is built out more.
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Offline beyondthesidewalks

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Re: 8 Frame Size Standard
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2012, 01:47:47 PM »
"A little headwork should convince you to use standard, NOT custom cut sizes."
That's exactly what I was after in starting this thread.  I knew that there were a few different sizes being produced.  I figured that one would be rising to dominate the market.  It appears that 13.75" has achieved that status.  Exactly what I was looking for.  Thanks, all, for your input.