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Author Topic: Bailing out France  (Read 7236 times)
kingbee
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« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2012, 04:05:49 PM »

We drove a Peugeot all over Europe... I never measured the gas mileage, but I'm sure it was astronomical compared to US cars.


... Mystery solved:  It’s called high compression diesel + SMALL body.  http://www.topgear.com/uk/peugeot/207/specs
Note:  diesels get the 50 to 60mpg while the gasoline versions of these matchbox cars only get 30mpg... For various reasons, including carcinogenic particulate emissions from diesels, they have not gained wide spread acceptance here...


While Michael never mentioned Diesel fuel.  The same milage figures from Michael's Peugeot were available here back in the bad ol' 1970s and 80s in VW Rabbets, Ford Escorts, Topazes or in other small diesel cars and trucks.  This was when running dog arch "conservatives" like Ford, Carter, and Regan were oppressing the Proletariat.  Remember that when the Berlin Wall collapsed in the late 1980s that a flood of anti-industralist, homeless Communist, and other environmentalist types spilled out of Eastern Europe like lemmings going skinny dipping.  Many of these folks went to ground in Europe.  Yet you expect us to believe that today's Ultra Kelley Green European Union and their anti-Capitalist types spew carcinogenic Diesel fumes into Maria Augusta von Trapp's pristine alpine air, against their free will?  GIVE ME A BREAK.

I can just see the new Maria's Song from "The Sound of Music" now.

"Let's start at the (Wheeze) beginning
A very good place (Cough cough) to start
When you read you begin with A B C
When (Snort) you sing you begin with
(Wheeze cough snort) Do Re Mi..."
 
And still you expect me to believe Green Europe hates these high milage cars, that were declared 'Persona' non grata by the very environmentalist here who today bad mouth the anemic milage ratings of the current crop of American cars and small trucks while with their "other Left Wing" these same environmentalist push for the production and sale of even more inefficient fuel hogs, like the Chevy Volt Hybred, running on gasoline which is the majority of the time.   embarassed
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kingbee
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« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2012, 04:46:10 PM »

... Why on earth... is [GM] investing in a French automaker ...This cover story that it is “to gain access to Peugeots expertise in small car and hybrid tech” is laughable...

As far as I know Peugeot only introduced its first Electric-Diesel Hybrid Concept car in the Fall of 2009 or about three years ago.  So I doubt there is much knowledge there to harvest.  The movie "2016, Obama's America" however will answer your every question.  Obama is on a Don Quixote Quest to punish evil Capitalist and Trade Unionest, like you and me by bankrupting and trashing as much of the USA as is humanely possible in whatever time he has available to trash it.  Anyway, you and I own the vast majority of GM and it's stock is under water, or laying on the floor of the "Tank" BIG TIME.  So what's your problem?  You act like it's real money or something. 

So remember what Obama taught you and repeat after me, "You didn't build that!"
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kingbee
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« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2012, 04:36:02 PM »

...
Do YOU spend more than you make?  ... As I mentioned we are BROKE.  B-R-O-K-E!!!  15 TRILLION BROKE!

Since the first day that the Democrat National Convention convened in Charlotte North Carolina the National Debt counter clicked over the SIXTEEN THILLION mark.  You need to feed your abacus more often Blue, she be running a bit slow.  And my dear BlueBee, that is just our bonded indebtedness.  Counting Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, VA Pensions and benefits, US Government Employee Pentions and Benefits, State Government Pentions (including teachers, cops, and other bureaucrats) not to mention underfunded private pention plans)  All told it amounts to some 125-150 TRILLIONS MORE in non existant DOLLARS. 

Tell me pray tell, who is going to pay their fair share of this unsecured debt, the same greedy one percents who you are depending on to rake your chestnuts out of the current fire?  The really nice thing about our unsecured indebtedness is as inflation goes up the debt will increase just as fast to keep pace with, or maybe even run ahead of wage inflation, tightening the screws on the real wealth creators, the wage earners.

Who will be the first to step up to the alter and break their iron rice bowls as a public sacrifice?  Will you be the one BlueBee?  That is what this is all really about, the favored among us in the form of current and former bureaucrats (See a partial list above) against those of us who still have a job and who Obama has blessed with a shrinking pay check out of which they are forced to finance the good life for those of us who produce nothing but who consume everything.

BYW, as more and more Beeks wake up to the facts of political life, the more of us Beeks realize that the police no longer protect life, liberty, property, or our pursuit of happiness.  Every year the police become more of a glorified coups of retirees and score keepers whose main job is to maintain a sort of peace or equality between the forces of good and evil without making either side feel bad about their contribution to society.  Afterall, those of us who only stand in line and take, take, take also serve.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2012, 05:26:09 PM »

Kingbee, the US Government is in the same kind of shape (actually MUCH worse) than GM was when it went bankrupt in 2008/9.  If you had asked anybody over 40 if mighty GM would ever go bankrupt, you would get laughed out of Tennessee.   In the old way of thinking, that would have been unthinkable.

I suggest to you the same will happen with the US government debt.  As you suggested, there is no plausible way to pay down 120 trillion in debt.   Like GM, the only way the Government will survive is by writing off the debt.   GM got rid of its debt and is once again a strong company.  Same will eventually happen to the governments debt.  It will get written down via these various QEs, inflation, and eventually reform of the entitlements.  How do I know?  Because we simply don’t have the $$$$ to pay it off no matter what we do.  Not even the 1%ers have that kind of money.

The laughable thing about the debt game that Wall Street is playing is the credit ratings.  GM bonds were downgraded to junk status in the mid 2000’s because wall street deemed they could not pay off all their debts.  That action accelerated their demise.  Yet the Wall Streets rates the US Treasuries as AA- investments.  What a joke.  If the bonds were rated as junk (as they should be), there would be much more pressure on the politicians to reform the entitlements, cut spending, and fix a lot of these problems.   

Kingbee, how is Romney going to fix your 120 trillion dollar debt problem?
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kingbee
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« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2012, 05:45:09 PM »

...
Kingbee, the US Government is in the same kind of shape (actually MUCH worse) than GM was when it went bankrupt... I suggest to you the same will happen with the US government debt.  As you suggested, there is no plausible way to pay down 120 trillion in debt.   Like GM, the only way the Government will survive is by writing off the debt.... GM bonds were downgraded to junk status in the mid 2000’s because wall street deemed they could not pay off all their debts.... Yet the Wall Streets rates the US Treasuries as AA- investments...

For over 200 years the US Government debt was rate AAA+ but under President Obama it has been down graded to AA-.  I am not missing anything here Bee, but I think you may be.  The almost 80% of the GM stock in the US Treasury or the UAW's retirement fund is currently trading at 50% below the issue price.  What is coming in your world is not bankrupticy but a complete repudiation of all Federal debt even the private pention plan debt (like the UAW's) supposedly guaranteed by your Uncle Sugar.
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kingbee
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« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2012, 05:55:33 PM »

... If you had asked anybody over 40 if mighty GM would ever go bankrupt, you would get laughed out of Tennessee... 

I did predict that GM would go belly button up, in fact over thirty years before the fact.  In a few years I still think you can put a couple of nickles on GM's eye lids when she suffers her next relapse.  Just think of it as Obama's Death Panel for sick Capitalist.  Cry
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BlueBee
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« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2012, 03:09:32 PM »

I did predict that GM would go belly button up, in fact over thirty years before the fact.  
Kingbee are you sure you’re not related to Michael Moore?  He also predicted GM would go bankrupt about 30 years ago.  Remember Roger and Me?  Nobody believed him either.   I gotta give you and Michael credit for that call. applause applause applause   You're in good company Wink

As for the sudden credit downgrade:  Do you really think the US credit rating should have been AAA for the any of the past 30 years?  Come on now, let’s be honest here!   The US gov was never going to pay off all the debt Reagan racked up; let alone Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr, and now Obama.  How many unfunded wars have we had in the past 30 years?

I seem to have missed your solution for paying off 120 trillion in debt?  Even Romney is now saying there seems to be a limit to how many government employees he can fire.   The best the Dems and Republicans can cut is about 100 billion.  Bernanke eliminates that much debt in his sleep.  Maybe the Fed needs broader powers since they’re the only ones eliminating serious amounts of debt?
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kathyp
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« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2012, 03:35:18 PM »

i am not a fan of debt, but debt by itself is not a problem.  if you buy a house and have to make payments, you have debt.  as long as you can make the payments and still do all the other things you need/want to do, your debt is not an issue.  however, if you buy a house and the payments are more than you can earn, your kids go without clothes, and you can't put food on the table, your debt is a bad thing.

http://visual.ly/united-states-debt-percentage-gdp-1940-2012

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2012, 06:44:05 PM »

US trade deficit for 2011: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/

South Korea: -13 billion
Japan:  -62 billion
Germany:  -49 billion

Do YOU spend more than you make?  Do YOU get free police service?

If these rich countries need our world police services, then make THEM pay for the troops.  As I mentioned we are BROKE.  B-R-O-K-E!!!  15 TRILLION BROKE!



True you are broke....but...the US Government likes to project Power and this costs you tax $$$! Get your leaders of which ever persuasion, Romney? eek, and the incumbent is just as bad, to stop trying to be the world's policeman. I'm sure you would all like to have hundreds of thousands of the military back home, what to do with them, where do they live? lay them off? unemployment is bad enough. Much better to keep them out of sight and out of mind. BTW what the hell is the USAAF doing in the UK? Presumably to shoot down long haul airliners.
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Whats good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?
The Ladies could still teach the Borg a thing or two!....and maybe us too, so long as we don't go too far to the left or right and fall off the edge...
kathyp
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« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2012, 07:36:23 PM »

i don't have a problem with the projection of power although i'd like to see NATO pick up a bigger share of it.  it's not that i wish to see my family members shuffled around the world for months and years at a time.
power and leadership go together.  always.  someone will lead and project power.  always.  we know from our past attempts a not projecting power, that it costs us more in the long run. 

think about your world choices for leadership...because one of those countries will step in when we step out.  which one do you prefer? 

we do not need to be spending billions on "aid" to many of these countries.  when you see you embassy burning, you should lite a match to the check you were just about to put in the mail to that country.  when you find that the money you have sent for the people is going into the pocket of the despot...or his wife, you should send no more money.  this is not rocket science to most of us.....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2012, 07:17:43 AM »

If we packed up and went home it would also have economic effects on the populations near the bases. We spend a lot of money over there.

I surely would not be at ease with China or Russia filling the gaps if we left as there is no one else in Europe that could stop them if they took the vacuum.
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buzzbee
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« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2012, 07:21:01 AM »

However,I think maybe if others desire our protection that they pay. If we would say we are pulling up stakes,it would show if they really want our protection or the money we spend while we are there.
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kathyp
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« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2012, 09:30:14 AM »

there is payment of one kind or another from most of these countries.  not the least is the use of their land and facilities.  you could argue that we pay out more than we get in return, but if you consider those bases as necessary forward positions, it is worth the money. 

where i don't think we are getting good return on our money is with aid and military aid for most countries.  we just did a deal to sell egypt a bunch of tanks.  what kind of thinking is that?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #53 on: September 20, 2012, 05:54:31 PM »

However,I think maybe if others desire our protection that they pay. If we would say we are pulling up stakes,it would show if they really want our protection or the money we spend while we are there.

Kathyp is correct, they are forward projection. The unsinkable aircraft carriers etc I just pity the poor 'locals' who live near the bases if the rhetoric becomes 'hot' nothing like keeping the war on foreign soil.
But what to do about the trillions of debt? It can't all be down to the present government, americans (along with most of the free world) have been living beyond their means for decades. What happens if the bond holders call in the debt? ....maybe sell off a few islands like the Greeks are, I'm sure the Chineese would love a state or two. Oregon with all that lovely timber (lumber?) umm timber.
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Whats good for bees is usually good for mankind. Doesn't that mean sharing?
The Ladies could still teach the Borg a thing or two!....and maybe us too, so long as we don't go too far to the left or right and fall off the edge...
kathyp
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« Reply #54 on: September 20, 2012, 08:49:37 PM »

Quote
I just pity the poor 'locals' who live near the bases if the rhetoric becomes 'hot'

many of these countries are in hot zones anyway.  S. Korea, Japan...in the Philippines, we left our base.  the host country let it go to pieces even though part of the reason they said they wanted us out is so that they could have the port.  now, there is talk of us going back.   the Philippines took a big financial hit when we left and are wanting that money again.  i'm not sure it's worth going back in and fixing things up unless we are getting a lease for the next couple of hundred years....

Quote
But what to do about the trillions of debt?

that's the question of the day, isn't it? the simple thing would be to roll back spending to the clinton years and restructure the tax code.  you'd also have to get rid of all the business killing regulations of the last 20 or so years.  revenue is not created through redistribution, it's created when business thrives and people work.  the only part the government has in that is to stay out of the way.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kingbee
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« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2012, 10:02:32 PM »

...

i have plumbing in my house...  


What's this plumbing you keep mentioning?
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BlueBee
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« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2012, 10:10:43 PM »

Kingbee, maybe beeks are moving into the 21st century grin
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kingbee
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« Reply #57 on: September 28, 2012, 10:19:50 PM »


i don't have a problem with the projection of power

although i'd like to see NATO pick up a bigger share of it. 


Are we speaking of those same brave NATO troops from Belgium, epitomized by the Belgium UN "Peace Keeping Force" in Rwanda during the 1993 genocide?  These well armed allies of ours(in relation to the Hutus facing them) shouldered arms, dressed ranks, and marched off leaving 5,000 Tutsi refugees cowering in the Belgium's' former compound, a church.  The brave Europeans didn't even get out of hearing little less out of sight of the people they were guarding before the killing began with clubs, and knives.

Or maybe you meant the stalwart Dutch who shuffled out of Bosnia leaving 7,000 Bosnians to the tender mercies of the Serbs.

Europe is a bad joke, and our enemies know it.



France, the European country that is responsible for the run up to the Rowandian genocide is the only possible exception.
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kingbee
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« Reply #58 on: October 01, 2012, 07:49:18 PM »

... If I have a plumbing problem I want to know EXACTLY what they intend to do and get a good sense of how much it is going to COST... Do you just write a blank check to the plumber and tell them to fill it in once they're done?...

That is not how the government operators.  They often state the problem then ask for proposals to solve the problem.  Government designates both the problem and the bag of problem solving tools the government intends for the plumber to use.
 
Your government does what you say you don't ever hour of very day.  
One name for it is Green Jobs. Another name is "Cost Plus."  
Under cost plus accounting it is not uncommon for a government contractor to charge say their country club green fees or dog walking expences back to Uncle Sugar, because the more your "plumber" spends pluging a leak, the more your plumber makes.  Is this a great country or what?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2012, 03:42:48 AM by kingbee » Logged
kingbee
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« Reply #59 on: October 02, 2012, 03:44:33 AM »

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/27/us-arcelormittal-france-idUSBRE88Q09Z20120927

The France is experiencing voter regret.  The new French leftist government has taken a stunning nose dive in the public opinion polls.  Meanwhile the French Steel Workers Union has told the new French Socialist government to not even address the workers unless the government has a way to keep the last French steel mill from closing.  The French iron and steel industry has shed 750,000 jobs in the last 12 -15 years.     

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/30/us-renault-closures-report-idUSBRE88T0AK20120930

Meanwhile, French car maker Renault is mulling closing all its factories and buying Renaults from Nissan.  Only in F-R-A-N-C-E, LOL.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/26/us-france-jobless-idUSBRE88P1GT20120926

French unemployment is currently at a 13 year high and rising.  The previous French unemployment high occurring during the Clinton Administration not the Bush years, putting the lie to the old saw “Its Bush’s Fault!”

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