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Author Topic: about that inflation  (Read 3501 times)
BjornBee
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« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2012, 07:20:45 PM »

OK, if you’re finally ready to get off your high horse and stop denigrating everybody else, let's get to the facts.  applause applause applause


Grow up.


Let’s explore your electricity claims:  According to PG&E their current rate for residential customers is 18 cents per kw-hour.  In 1996 it is 13 cents per kw-hour.  That averages out to about a 2% increase per year.  Is that your definition of high inflation?   http://www.pge.com/tariffs/electric.shtml#RESELEC


Are you even reading or considering other people's comments. I specifically stated that my bill went up eluding to the fact it was other fees and taxes, beyond the narrow minded approach of just the kilowatt fee. Things like transmission fees, maintenance fees, taxes so every person can have internet and so on.

Even at a low inflation rate of 2%, things will EVENTUALLY double in price.  Complaining that prices keep going up in absolute values is being disingenuous to the debate; of course they go up unless we are deflating.  Pay no attention to your home values dropping like a rock….


Who is complaining? I went to great length to state that it was not 2% killing folks. it was losing 1% every year, while being killed with new fees, taxes, etc., that is not even covered in the inflation rate.

What we're debating here is rather or not we are inflating at 2%, 8%, or 13%.  The DATA says 2% but our bee keepers seem to know something the experts don’t.  If we were inflating at 8%, then your electricity would be more like 44 cents per kw-hour.  Is that what you are paying per kilowatt hour along with your $4 milk?


Who is debating 2, 8 or 13%  I used those rates to make a complete other point. nobody but you is debating those rates. Looking at one item, and suggesting that if overall inflation was some made up number by you, that electricity should be this particular number, is useless.

Funny how you select which items you want to pick to make your points to your favor. But mention gas 20 years ago at 87 cents per gallon. and you don't want to even mention that.

And when I mentioned milk at 4 dollars (4.09 to be exact) with buzzbee backing up that he being right up the road is paying 3.63, you seemingly scoffed as if I was making that up and full of crap.

I mentioned new taxes, fees, and other factors at play, and even backed it up with examples, of how the average homeowner is being squeezed, and yet, you gloss right over that, and limit the discussion to what you want to talk about, while dismissing others who have tried to carry the discussion along, regardless of your comments.

Go ahead, I'm finshed playing this game.
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kathyp
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« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2012, 08:19:27 PM »

as an example:  the bill for my beach house, used little most of the year, went like this....

303 kwh  

basic charge                                 9.00
delivery charge                              11.44
tax                                                .36
supply charge block                      16.11
public purpose (welfare)                 1.11
energy conservation charge              .79
low income assistance (welfare)        .85
two separate dam removals total       .41


now that may not seem like much of an add on, but most of that is some kind of tax.  i haven't even pulled my big bill, but if you want, i'll share that with you also.  do we even know what most of this crap is?  why am i paying for a dam removal that will drive my bill up?  i didn't want the thing down.  let the tree huggers pay for it.  why am i paying for someone's heat bill when i have to keep my own temps down to save?  what is the energy conservation charge?  for that little use, i should be getting a conservation credit.

total bill ends up at 38.47 and near as i can tell, i used 9 bucks worth of power.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2012, 09:04:51 PM »

Kathyp, good to see real data!  Most people refer to the rate they pay for electrical power as a composite of all these things you noted.  Most people realize that power doesn’t go from point A to point B through thin air, it goes through expensive to build (and maintain) transmission lines. 

So your total bill ended up being $38.47.  That’s 3847 cents for 303kwh of power.  3847/303 = 12.6 cents per kw-hour.  A very economical rate compared to some other parts of the country.  Your hydropower is cheap.  Here in Michigan we’re about 12 cents per kw-hour too and yes that includes all the other little fees some people obsess over. 

Looks like PA is around 13 cents when all is combined.  According to the DATA, PA electricity is only up about 6% in 20 years.  So that’s 0.3% per year.  http://www.puc.state.pa.us/electric/electric_index.aspx.  Data is more important than opinion in debates.  Some people just like to throw up straw men to obscure the data.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2012, 09:36:30 PM »

Opps, looks like that sub link to the PA electricity rates is not working.  You can go here and click on the numbers tell the story if you’re interested in some data.  http://www.puc.state.pa.us/electric/electric_index.aspx

The fact of the matter is; picking electrical rates as an example of run away inflation is a poor choice if you’re trying to debate a case for high inflation.  The fact is electrical rates have really been near a flat line for a VERY long time, unless you live far away from coal, NG, or hydro. 

Same thing can be said of computers, TVs, electronics, etc.  All these things have taken a big dive in prices as manufacturing has moved from high cost labor in the USA to pennies on the dollar in China.  My first computers cost well over $2000 each.  Now they’re under $500. 

What has been going up is stuff that includes American labor in it.  Sad but true.  Food, Medical Care, Education, Roads, Construction, etc.   These things and global commodities HAVE been rapidly rising, I don’t dispute that.  However when you combine everything together, the net sum of inflation is still low to modest……for the time being.
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SEEYA
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« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2012, 07:17:24 PM »

This may be a little overly simplistic: If I had A LOT of money and wanted more; I would buy a tankership load of crude and then have the captain of said ship stop at the Bahamas for a week.  evil 
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BlueBee
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« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2012, 09:27:21 PM »

The Wall Street Bankers are one step ahead of you!  The bankers played that game on the oil run up in 2007 and 2008 and again after the oil crash of 2008.  It’s called contango (actually taking advantage of contango).  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil-storage_trade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contango
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T Beek
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« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2012, 08:30:24 AM »

 shocked  Little surprise here that while prices rise at the pumps BIG OIL is setting 'profit' records selling American OIL to overseas buyers. 

Just wait;  once our refineries are emptied (won't be long now) then the real money will be made and the masses will again be told to 'drill baby drill' or 'build that pipeline' or 'extract that gas' so BIG OIL/GAS can sell off more of 'our' oil/gas to keep their profits up.

As an aside to this issue, I just read a recent report on fracking and how it has been based on some blatant industry lies.  Some recent science has now shown that the amount of NATURAL GAS  lying below American soil was/is largely inflated. 

For those paying attention, the NATUARL GAS INDUSTRY has been telling us that American Natural Gas dwarfs Saudi OIL with as much as 200 years worth of energy for 'AMERICA', but now science has found there may be 'less than 50' years worth. 

Of course this does not take into consideration that MONEY is the most important motive for these folks and they are hellbent on selling "OUR" Natural Gas, just like 'our' oil, to the highest bidder (that's not us).  BIG OIL/GAS does not care about America or Americans, they care about themselves and their money, just like any sociopath would. 

We should not be fooled into believing they are here for us  rolleyes

Natural Gas (unknown to most, the Industry is in very deep debt trouble) may very well turn out to be the NEXT BUBBLE to burst, even before Student Loan debt. 

Turns out its easier to squeeze blood out of students (who cannot go bankrupt) than getting any honesty from BIG OIL/GAS.  shocked  rolleyes

t
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BlueBee
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« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2012, 12:43:32 PM »

As usual T, I think you’re about spot on with your analysis.

I’ve been paying attention to Nat Gas and you’re right the drillers are sitting on a huge valuation (stock) bubble while their income is dropping like a rock.  The price of Nat Gas has already collapsed in monumental proportions.  The companies haven’t collapsed yet, but they are sitting on massive debts and wells that cost more to operate than they get back in profit. 

I do find it a little suspicious that they’re now coming up with reports that the supply of Natural Gas may only be 50 years as opposed to 200 years.  This sounds to me more like the big drillers are just trying to spook people (Wall Street Bankers) to drive the prices up so they can resume making huge profits from NG.  The whole LNG thing is also just a way to get prices to rise at home.

BTW, I don’t think anybody in the Natural Gas industry is going to listen to our bee keeps who claim we are experiencing massive inflation!
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T Beek
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« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2012, 03:03:08 PM »

I have similar suspicions with regards to any sincerity from the industry.  They do not care about America or Americans.  It really is that simple.

t
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