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Author Topic: It's a good thing we have the FDA to test things like this for us...  (Read 1543 times)
Michael Bush
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« on: March 01, 2012, 05:33:36 AM »

Sleeping Pills Linked to Almost Fourfold Increase in Death Risk

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Sleep/sleeping-pills-linked-times-increased-death-risk/story?id=15803687

"But adults who take sleeping pills in even small numbers over their lifetimes may be nearly four times more likely to die earlier compared to those who are not prescribed sleeping pills, according to new findings published Monday in the British Medical Journal. And those prescribed sleeping pills may also be more likely to be diagnosed with cancer, the study found.

Researchers looked at electronic medical records of nearly 35,000 patients, fewer than half of whom took such FDA-approved sleep medications as Ambien, Restoril, Lunesta, and Sonata. They found that even those who look fewer than 18 sleeping pills a year were at greater risk of death, compared to those who were not prescribed sleeping aids. "

Good thing the FDA had to approve them first, and thoroughly tested them... otherwise things that quadruple your chance of dying might make it to market... oh... I guess they did... nevermind....

"We're from the government and we're here to help."
"Better living through Chemistry"

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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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T Beek
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« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2012, 05:41:43 AM »

Excellent post, thanks Michael.

I've struggled w/ insomnia for many years.  The VA has attempted to place me on meds for it (like every other ailment, a drug is their FIRST choice) many times and I have always resisted (good choice apparently).

I stopped fighting it years ago.  Sometimes I sleep, sometimes I don't.  I figure I'll sleep plenty when I'm dead.

Smoking a joint used to help, but I gave that up a while back and now just deal with it.

"Acceptance" is at least half the battle IMO.

t
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deknow
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2012, 09:33:09 AM »

....remember that not all.sleeping pills are sleeping pills.  I think there is a large ongoing marketing program getting the elderly and others who don't want to be taking g sleeping pills to use tylenol PM.  Lots of promotions to buy one jar and get 2 free (a scheme any drug pusher would employ if their wholesale price.were.low.enough) for the elderly.  The worst part is that they don't need the tylenol component, and taking tylenol every day (especially with a glass of wine)  is terrible for your liver.  This should be criminal.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2012, 10:07:08 AM »

I’m not defending the FDA or the drug companies, far from it, but if you look at the potential side effects from any drug out there, death is often one of them!  Just looking at death records to claim one thing is likely to result in more deaths sounds like bad science to me.  Maybe there are underlying medical reasons why these people were taking sleeping pills?  Stress, Anxiety, Depression?  Those are potent killers all by themselves.   

As  Deknow points out, when people mix these drugs with alcohol (and God only knows what else), who knows what the outcome will be.
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2012, 10:08:32 AM »

the thing about that study is that it didn't link the deaths to the sleeping pills directly.  they will work more on cause, but among those things they will consider:  was there an underlying condition that might have contributed to sleep problems in the first place?  were there more incidents of falling, med errors, etc. in people who took those pills?

so...don't panic yet if you are taking them.  consider all your health and what you might be able to change or how you might be more careful with what you do.
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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2012, 01:31:24 PM »

As Kathy already states, is it the pills, or is it the fact that the people with insomnia have other conditions that may be the cause?  Thinks are not always cut and dried. 

I have had awful insomnia at time.  Fot months at a time sometimes.  I would guess people with little sleep are at risk for a lot of things like not seeing a red light and hitting someone or getting hit, doing something foolish at work cause your so tired you cant think strait and so on.  Then I am sure there are directly linked health issues from a lack of sleep like a stroke maybe or seizures or god only knows what.  When you are working with little sleep for long periods of time things go wacky with your body as well and mind. 

I hate taking pills but I finally asked my doctor for something cause I absolutely hate tylenol PM and they did not work well anyway.  The next day I would yawn all day and be tired as heck.  He prescribed ambien and it works great.  If I cant sleep I take a half a pill and it works.  You need four to five hours of sleep at least to take one.  So I wait until I have only a little over five hours of sleep time left before I have to get up before I bite the bullet ant take one.  It is a godsend.  For me there is no after effect when I wake up.  I have taken about 20 or so since I have had them for a year and a half or so.  So that would be 40 times I guess.  It actually helps I think because I know i have them and that I will be able to sleep if cant fall asleep.  So knowing that, I think I can fall asleep easier when I have trouble falling asleep, if that makes any sense, which for most folks out there who suffer from insomnia I think it will.

So until they can say, its the pill that is killing people, I will take them, cause four hours of sleep is better than 0 sleep and going to work or having to call in and use vacation and then worry about money which causes more insomna, which causes more money issues which causes more insomnia.................................
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T Beek
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« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2012, 03:48:07 PM »

You make perfect sense bee-nuts.  Insomnia most always has some underlaying issue.

AND...... most things are rarely so 'cut and dried'  Smiley

My wife takes something, can't remember the name off-hand, but its been around for a long while and she doesn't have to take it EVERY DAY, just when she needs it.  That seems to describe your own situation which you described well.

Don't view my resistance to taking anything sway you any way.  Fact is I take enough meds and hate all of them.  But they 'might' someday give me an extra week or two in the long run  Wink

In any case, insomnia sucks regardless of the cause (s).

t
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 09:34:47 AM by T Beek » Logged

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luvin honey
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« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2012, 04:17:38 PM »

the thing about that study is that it didn't link the deaths to the sleeping pills directly.  they will work more on cause, but among those things they will consider:  was there an underlying condition that might have contributed to sleep problems in the first place?  were there more incidents of falling, med errors, etc. in people who took those pills?

so...don't panic yet if you are taking them.  consider all your health and what you might be able to change or how you might be more careful with what you do.
Exactly. It doesn't really state a causal relationship, just a relationship.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2012, 09:51:09 AM »

>Exactly. It doesn't really state a causal relationship, just a relationship.

Correct.  And one they just finally realized after all these years.  And not a trivial one.  We aren't talking about a 25% difference.  We are talking about a 400% difference.

Treating the symptom is the fundamental flaw in Western medicine.  You treat a symptom with chemicals and never deal with the root of the problem.  So in a round about way, at least, the sleeping pills are the cause by covering up what might have been treated if they hadn't.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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T Beek
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« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2012, 10:15:15 AM »

Too few are 'dealing with the root'.  Now where'd I see that before?  grin

Excellent discussion.  Thanks to all.

t
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« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2012, 10:56:12 AM »

Dealing with root problems takes way more doctors hours than handing out a pill.  Weeks of effort vs 10 minutes.  Time is money.  So dealing with root problems would multiply our health care costs by 10x or 20x.  We’re already paying 15% of GDP for health care.  10x that and we’re Greece. 
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2012, 11:04:15 AM »

>Dealing with root problems takes way more doctors hours than handing out a pill.

You are right.  Much cheaper to let them die.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2012, 11:19:31 AM »

I wasn’t making a moral judgement, just the cold hard dollars of our existing system.  I would prefer a system like Canada or Great Britain where the costs are kept under control and more emphasis can be put on prevention.  We don’t have that here.  Seems most beeks don’t want it either.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2012, 11:21:10 AM »

>Dealing with root problems takes way more doctors hours than handing out a pill.

You are right.  Much cheaper to let them die.
I work in a medical clinic. I would say some doctors are so overscheduled that they don't take the time to really talk about lifestyle. But I would also say it is much more common that doctors DO talk about lifestyle and most people are not willing to change.

They don't want to eat lots of fruits, vegetables and whole food.
They don't want to quit smoking.
They don't want to exercise.

And, honestly, our medical system is not set up in a way that allows doctors much counseling time. That's where my training was in--community health education--to prevent problems. It's frustrating to see how much $ goes into treating symptoms and not getting to the actual problem. And the treatment causes problems of its own--and side effects--that are also treated with more medication.
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2012, 12:55:45 PM »

and most people are not willing to change.
THIS is probably the root cause of many of our problems; health and otherwise!
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2012, 12:59:47 PM »

Very true, we do not get enough time with our doctors any more.  They simply confirm the medications you are on and get the script pad out (pc) to add another.  Its western medicine.  We are as in much of a rush as the doctors, at least me.  I want to get in and out of there as fast as they want me in and out.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2012, 01:06:35 PM »

And I am a doctor's nightmare. I take about 45 min for the visits, I ask tons of questions, and I use them for diagnostics only (labs, x-rays, etc.) and then "treat" myself and my family usually. They probably groan when they see me on the schedule Smiley
« Last Edit: March 02, 2012, 02:09:33 PM by luvin honey » Logged

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T Beek
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« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2012, 01:40:00 PM »

 lau lau  That's too much  cool Made my jaw hurt, cuz I do the same thing. 

Dealing w/ VA Health Care often means dealing w/ many Doctors, usually just once or twice before a new one comes through the door  Sad, requiring the breaking in of a new one (I mean, don't they teach these guys to read case history's  huh in school huh

But even when doing a basic intake, there is little eye to eye contact these days.  They all seem much more concerned w/ 'getting it written down' instead of conducting an exam.

I'm usually watching the backs of their heads while they type (saying a whole lot more than we ever discussed  Undecided ).

I've seen plenty of 'eye rolling' over the years as I pull out my 'list' of questions  shocked

On the other end of the spectrum, I see an acupuncturist once a month who gives complete exams with lots of eye to eye contact with a holistic approach every time I see her, usually for 1 1/2 to 2 hour sessions for $55.00.  Well Worth every penny IMO.

That said; it pays to find a competent one.  There's plenty of quacks.

t
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