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Author Topic: So clear and idiot should get it.......  (Read 6535 times)
BjornBee
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« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2012, 10:38:26 AM »

Ok, so losing 40% of your home value (deflation), while gas doubles in price (inflation) , and this should be, in the fuzzy math area of reasoning, something we consider a "push" and assume that there is no inflation since it cancells each other out. Maybe this is why they have different ways of figuring inflation.

Great for those looking to buy a under water home as often as they do gas. But I, as well as many others, know that the cost of maintaining a home, paying bills, and buying groceries each week, has seen some huge increases over the years. Not sure where you buy 2 gallons of milk for 5 dollars. I have been buying one gallon for more than 4 dollars.

So less equity in your home which amounts to a loss of value to the homeowner, while other prices are rising (less purchasing power), and this is not inflationary in reasoning, is a good one.  rolleyes

kathy,
I agree with asking who does the shopping. I had not shopped in a few years. I was shocked to find out that for over a hundred dollars, it did not fill two paper bags. I also stopped in for a few things for the kids for lunch and was shocked and surprised that 32 dollars later, what it costs today to do the grocery shopping.

Of course some want the public to think there is no inflation. These are the same that want you to think after blaming Bush for years, that Obama has nothing to do with gas prices. And the unemployment rate really went down, and was not a result of pushing folks onto the disability rolls, after being diagnosed with "stress" of not finding a job.

It takes a true politician to tell folks that their food and living costs are not really up, after factoring in the deflation of their homes.

So if food goes up to a hypothetical figure of 100,000 per year, while my house goes down in value from 100,000 to nothing in the same timeframe....what is this called?  Wink  I guess I could by a few homes at that price....if I didn't need to eat!
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kathyp
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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2012, 11:27:18 AM »

saying there is no inflation because your store carries milk as a lost leader is not helpful either.  i get my mild for around 2.50 also.  then i go on to buy eggs-up in price, meat-up in price, bread-same, etc.  i also buy feed for my animals.  all grain prices are up.  it is true that if you shop carefully you can keep prices down.

http://www.mymoneyblog.com/does-the-government-underestimate-inflation-through-the-consumer-price-index-cpi.html

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/consumerpriceindex.asp#axzz1nSmc1AB1

in addition, if they give use the core CPI measurement, it doesn't even include food and fuel.

CPI is, at best, a lagging indicator.  if fuel prices stay as they are, or go up, you'll see prices up again over the next few months.  new inventory will come to the stores at a higher cost.  the feds will still be scrambling to manipulate the availability of money, and temper inflation or the fear of deflation.  

TBeek....there is a difference between a correction and deflation.  housing prices are correcting because they had gotten to the point that price did not reflect market. these corrections are normal and if the govt would leave it alone, we'd correct more quickly.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2012, 01:34:03 PM »

Some are not even reading between the lines of their own words.  C'mon people! 

For some crazy reason some of the most important parts of human life are not even counted by the 'experts' when considering such things as inflation.  Does 'anyone' think that's an accident?

For those paying attention, we are observing how it always works in a Boom/Bust Economy designed by the profiteers for the profiteers.   This has been happening for a very long time.

Having absolute faith in our culture and its current economic system regardless of its irrational aspects, fools many today into believing that only the 'free' (for whom?) market will save us, and remains the 'only' way to get things turned around because its the only thing that ever has rolleyes  NOT!

Little has changed in creating mass-hysteria besides the methods used.

t
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kathyp
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« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2012, 01:39:57 PM »

Quote
For those paying attention, we are observing how it always works in a Boom/Bust Economy designed by the profiteers for the profiteers.   This has been happening for a very long time.

it has and there is nothing wrong with that.  where it gets messed up is where govt tries to control either the boom or the bust.  if you leave it alone, the market very quickly moderates both.  BTW....there is nothing wrong with profiting from either.  anyone with any market sense will try to do it.
take housing right now:  may people had been priced out of the market.   if the govt will stay out of it and let the housing market find bottom, not only will it recover more quickly, but those who could not before buy, will be able to now.  you might call them profiteers, but i would call them smart for taking advantage of an opportunity.  same with those of us who have picked up rentals.  the houses are off the market, kept up, and available for those who need housing.  that can't be said of a bank owned, or abandoned house.

the markets work if you let them.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2012, 01:47:57 PM »

Thanks kathyp; You prove my point that even smart people can find this current corrupt system, designed to screw us all, perfectly acceptable for the masses and likely remains the number one reason we are doomed to keep it awhile longer  Cry .

Of course, not being aware of reasonable and/or more rational alternatives (see George Henry's "Single Tax" solution) is a huge stumbling block, but I'm trying  Wink

t
« Last Edit: February 26, 2012, 04:23:24 PM by T Beek » Logged

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BlueBee
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« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2012, 03:28:33 PM »

Since some of you seem to be more in the know about prices than the Fed (and all the thousands of people collecting pricing data for the Fed), why don’t you enlighten me to what the inflation rate is in your mind?  Y’all say the 2% number from the Fed is way off and Ron Paul predicted “massive inflation”.  So just what is the rate?  Are we talking 10%?  33%?  200%?  1000%?  Don’t be shy, post a number

Next how about telling me why the interest rates on Treasuries (short and long term bonds) are at record lows.  2% for the 10 year bond.  If we really have this massive inflation you’re imagining why on Earth would people be snapping up 10 year bonds with a measly interest rate of 2%!!!
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kathyp
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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2012, 04:56:33 PM »

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/08/who-is-buying-u-s-treasuries/

the feds are keeping interest rates low and buying treasuries.  it's called quantitative easing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative_easing

Tbeek, i know you want to draw me into a 17th century economic debate, but since you can't/won't answer my questions about practical application in the current world, i'm not going there with you.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2012, 06:17:06 PM »

A.  QE 1 and 2 are done.  At the moment there are no announced QEs

B.  Believe it or not, bond prices are set by the free market, not the Fed.  We do believe in capitalism don’t we?  It is illegal for the Fed to directly buy gov debt, they have to buy on the open market just like everybody else.  The price of a bond is set by supply vs demand.  If the traders in the bond market really believed inflation was out of control like y’all, they would not be buying, they would be SELLING.  When more people sell than buy bonds, the yields go up.  That is NOT happening.  People are NOT unloading their bonds because the inflation REALLY IS BELOW 2% like the Fed says. 

C.  I’m still waiting for some inflation rate numbers from y’all.  What is the real rate?   

D.  It’s a good thing beeks aren’t running the Fed  Smiley

 beat a dead horse beat a dead horse beat a dead horse
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kathyp
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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2012, 07:46:09 PM »

Quote
I’m still waiting for some inflation rate numbers from y’all.  What is the real rate? 


that's sort of the problem, isn't it?  because of the way the govt measures inflation, we don't know the real rate.  it does save the govt money to keep the stated rate down.  guess that would be good news if they didn't just keep spending the money on other crap.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2012, 10:42:02 PM »

The rate, I don't know. The reality, I bought 2 tractor tires 2 years ago for 285.00 each. This week, I went after two more identical tires and they were 480.00 each.

You figure the rate.
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« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2012, 12:13:34 AM »

... I see a lot of houses for sale in my area for about 60% percent the price they were a couple years ago.  That is DEFLATION of 40%.  Price of land in my area was $5000 to $7000 per acre.  Now it’s going for $3500 an acre.  A DEFLATION of nearly 50%...

I am aware of the fact that whole blocks in residential Detroit, Michigan are being plowed under for crops. Since the last 52 years have been dominated by the Democrat party except for 28 years during which a Republican was President and only 13 with a Republican Congress.  During less than 6 of these 52 years was a Republican President and a Republican Congress and Senate in power at the same time.  So whose fault is this drop in home and land values?  You can't blame it on cell phone towers, although I think some will try.
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kingbee
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« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2012, 12:31:35 AM »

The Fed and Government Motors must both use the same adding machine at the White House.  Case in point.

Eric Bolling the host on Follow the Money test drove the GM Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors.  For four days in a row, Bolling discovered that the Volt’s fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the reserve gasoline engine had to kick in.
 
Eric calculated the Volt got 30 mpg, including the 25 miles that it ran only on electricity. So, the Volt’s range including the 9 gallons of gas and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles. At 60 miles per hour it take’s 4 1/2 hours to drive 270 miles. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery for your return trip and you have a 540 mile round trip time of 19 hours. On a typical road trip your average speed including one recharging would be 20 MPH over 270 miles.   If three charging times are considered for the whole trip, the total time is 39 hours, meaning the 540 mile round trip is only 9 hours short of 2 full days and averages 18 MPH. 

According to General Motors, the Volt’s battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes 10 hours to fully charge a completely drained battery.  The cost for the electricity to recharge the Volt’s battery is never mentioned by GM so Bolling looked up what he pays for electricity.  He pays approximately $1.16 per kilo watt hour.

16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to fully recharge the battery.

$18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 or 75 cents per mile in electricity costs to operate the Volt using only the battery.  The Chevy Volt’s gasoline mileage is 27 miles per gallon.  Compare this to a similar size car with a conventional gasoline engine that gets 32 mpg or more.
 
$3.19 per gallon gasoline (at the time) divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile. The gasoline powered car cost about $15,000 to purchase while the Volt costs $46,000 to own.

So Obama expects us to pay over 3 times as much for a car, that burns more that 7 time the amount of fuel, and that requires 3 times longer to get somewhere.  I won’t say all my figures are correct, but their are close enough for government work, and that includes the Fraud Reserve... I mean Fed.

Is it any wonder then that Obama wants and needs to get gas prices well on their way to $10.00 per gallon before election day so he can point to his success at fundamentally changing America into a stagnant back water? Heck, he won’t need to steal the election, middle class Americans can’t afford to go to the polls and vote against him!!

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T Beek
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« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2012, 05:48:37 AM »

kathyp; sorry but I'm not trying to draw you into anything, wouldn't think of it.  But I provided the examples you requested long ago and you chose to ignore them (over and over and over) and subsequently have provided no refute of the examples so provided. 

That's 'your' loss by 'your' choice, my waste of time........on you. But don't despair kathyp, bigger brains than ours have tried in vain to refute Henry George's "SINGLE TAX" theories and practices. 

As of yet; NO ONE HAS EVER SUCCEEDED!  Check it out for yourself.....if you dare.

I now write simply for the benefit and pleasure of those who actually seek answers to some of our most pressing issues and are not satisfied with keeping things as they are.  I frankly don't care about those who think they already know everything  rolleyes

Lest we forget, I worked in Government as a 'public servant' for too many years and had my fill of 'know it all's' grin long ago.

This forum is only one example and is sadly filled to the brim w/ resistance to reality. Who would have thought beekeepers could be such a bunch of 'sticks in the mud?'  grin  Not me!

Here's a little hint about debates and debating;  LEARN the MATERIAL you're going to debate!  One can't debate a person who has 'no idea' what the other is talking about, so someone must either get over themselves or get educated.  Its a choice thing  Wink 

Only then can meaningful debate take place.

t
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BlueBee
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« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2012, 08:22:49 AM »

Well let’s compute inflation rate according to our beeks:

Tires:  $480 now, $285 2 years go.  Up 30% a year
Milk:  For some reason BjornBee pays $4 a gallon while the rest of us pay $2.50.  In some small corner of PA milk is up 60% this year.
Electricity:  Mr Monsanto claims electricity costs $1.16 per kwh while the rest of the country pays 12 to 20 cents per kilowatt hour.  That’s up 880%

Beek CPI then computes to an inflation rate of 313%.

Wow……and to think your retirement funds are investing your money in Treasury bonds with a yield of only 2%.  Inflation is going to eat your savings to zero in about 1 year at 313% inflation rate.

T says it best:
Here's a little hint about debates and debating;  LEARN the MATERIAL you're going to debate!  One can't debate a person who has 'no idea' what the other is talking about, so someone must either get over themselves or get educated.
 

BTW…. Kingbee, you need a new calculator.  Luckily calculators have deflated in cost.
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2012, 01:20:29 PM »

The federal reserve bank has nothing to worry about.  It counts on this type of finger pointing to keep the truth hidden in the shadows.
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kathyp
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« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2012, 01:53:01 PM »

Quote
Here's a little hint about debates and debating;  LEARN the MATERIAL you're going to debate!  One can't debate a person who has 'no idea' what the other is talking about, so someone must either get over themselves or get educated.  Its a choice thing   


you are right!  and it's ok that you talk to yourself.  i do it to sometimes.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2012, 02:06:49 PM »

Bee-nuts what truth are you talking about?  We all know the Fed is printing money, but the market doesn’t care as can be easily surmised by looking at the bond rates.  Bonds trade on the free market.  Capitalism at work.  If the traders REALLY believed the dollar was inflating there is no way they would be putting THEIR MONEY into our bonds for a 2% return on investment!!!  It would be financial suicide.   

Would you invest in something for a 2% return on your money if you’re money is going to lose more than 2% of value (due to inflation) before the bond matures?

Even if y’all don’t believe the hard CPI DATA (and clearly y’all don’t) the bond market is clearly saying we are NOT inflating by much.  People have invested TRILLIONS in our bonds at 2% and less.
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T Beek
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« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2012, 04:57:22 AM »

Quote
Here's a little hint about debates and debating;  LEARN the MATERIAL you're going to debate!  One can't debate a person who has 'no idea' what the other is talking about, so someone must either get over themselves or get educated.  Its a choice thing  


you are right!  and it's ok that you talk to yourself.  i do it to sometimes.

There it is kathyp.  Guess I can't argue w/ that mindset now can I?  How does one have intelligent debate w/ a person exhibiting a grade school maturity level anyway  grin ?  

It can't happen.

t
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BjornBee
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« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2012, 08:34:03 AM »

Maybe kathy just does not want to waste time with conversations including such denigrating comments as....

>>>>Here's a little hint about debates and debating;  LEARN the MATERIAL you're going to debate!  One can't debate a person who has 'no idea' what the other is talking about, so someone must either get over themselves or get educated.  Its a choice thing>>>>

Geesh.  rolleyes

Maybe she has the same attitude as you....

"I frankly don't care about those who think they already know everything"

Mirrors are a great thing.  rolleyes
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iddee
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« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2012, 09:00:07 AM »

"There it is kathyp.  Guess I can't argue w/ that mindset now can I?  How does one have intelligent debate w/ a person exhibiting a grade school maturity level anyway  grin ? "

You're right, Bjornbee. Mirrors are beautiful.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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