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Author Topic: Alberta beekeepers - they find more mites in poly hives  (Read 3422 times)
Finski
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« on: February 09, 2012, 01:03:29 AM »

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http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2011/diary112011.htm

Report from year 2011.  Very strange writings. Very strange.

A picture text: Active bees in an auger hole in an EPS hive. The temperature outside is minus twenty Celsius. The frost mustache shows that the bees are expelling moisture from the hive through the hole.

Bees are not active in 20 C. They surely are in cluster. If a big colony has been packed for winter too tight, it will be active and will die for starving.


I do not know who is this guy who just learn to use poly boxes. He found that hives are too air tight.
He had not got teaching what to do with insulated hives.

Only difference in poly hive and in wooden hive is that wood soaks water into the wall and poly hive leaks all condensation onto floor. Insulation is ofcourse a difference. Insulation value of 10 mm polyurethane is equal 4 inch dry wood.

The floor may be a mesh floor or solid floor. It may be a mesh floor whick will be closed for winter.

 Europe has used polyboxes in commercial level 20 years. It have had mites too 20 years.
Biggest beeyard what I know in Finland is 3000 hives. There are several nearly 1000 hive farms.

Mite problem is well under control in Europe. Good advices we got almost 10 years ago how to do to Apistan resistant mites.

It is better that Canadian come to Germany to see how they nurse bees in poly hives and what they do to mites.  There summer has perhaps the same lenght as in Canada.

Denmark has very advanced beekeeping too. Sweden and Finland have longer winter and shorter brood period than Canada.
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Finski
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2012, 02:48:21 AM »

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More or less mites

It has no meaning, because in every hive mites must be hit down and stop their reproduction.

Trickling means that it is only method what you can use in the middle of winter. When there is a brood brake, trickling is quick and most éasy way to destroy 95% of mites. It does not allways succeed. Why, who knows...

Mite population douples itself in a month. It depends how much mites are alive after winter and brooding starts.
Late mite treatment with thymol or formic acid is due to protect winter cluster bees, that they are abundant and not sucked by mites.

When treating, a hive may have 500 or 3000 mites. You just try to polish them without knowing how much they are. Some hives may be so much violated that they just die out.  That is beekeeping life nowadays even among experienced beekeepers..

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Finski
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2012, 03:19:19 AM »

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The page says: "I have never seen anything to indicate that OA evaporation harms the bees, but reason insists that coating bees with acid has to have some deleterious effects."

Trickling has been used in commercial scale over 10 years. Results has been splended.

Coating bees with acid - a tiny dust or with sugar glue, it has no meaning. Important is that mites die and the colony has not problems in Spring build up.

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Michael Bush
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2012, 03:19:39 AM »

>I do not know who is this guy who just learn to use poly boxes.

Allen Dick

"Allen Dick, originally from Ontario, is a beekeeper from Swalwell, Alberta. Swalwell is situated northeast of Calgary and 100 miles east of the Rockies. Allen began keeping bees in Alberta in the 70’s and gradually built up to 3500 colonies for Canola pollination and honey production. He sold out a couple of years ago and currently keeps only a few colonies. Allen maintains a website at www.honeybeeworld.com and also hosts the website of the Iowa Honey Producers. His website contains a daily diary for several years of his operation and also has cataloged information on a number of beekeeper topics. Allen is very computer oriented and well informed on issues facing the beekeeping industry. Some of his other interests include kayaking, sailing and skiing."--The Buzz Newsletter, http://www.abuzzaboutbees.com/IHPA/TheBuzz/November05/Page5.htm
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Finski
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« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2012, 03:23:48 AM »

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But that page is not any more maintained by Allen Dick? A guy behind the mesh hat is at least some one else.

What ever, somebody is inteventing a wheel in Canada.

Trickling is invented in Italy 1997 by prof Antonio Nanetti


Oxalic acid treatment January 2009-3


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« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 03:34:11 AM by Finski » Logged

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rdy-b
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2012, 03:54:54 PM »

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The page says: "I have never seen anything to indicate that OA evaporation harms the bees, but reason insists that coating bees with acid has to have some deleterious effects."

Trickling has been used in commercial scale over 10 years. Results has been splendid.

Coating bees with acid - a tiny dust or with sugar glue, it has no meaning. Important is that mites die and the colony has not problems in Spring build up.



 yes but you are trickling and he is evaporating (fumes from heat)--the evaporating is being explored --because--
 beekeepers need to be able to apply more than one or two treatments in a season-with the high mite pressure
exhibited in the commercial realm--trickling wont fill the bill for a large portion of beekeepers --remember we all have palm
trees   Wink --its just a observation dont let it eat you alive-- cool RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2012, 04:21:14 PM »

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Jee jee. Remember remember. You may do your beekeeping as difficult as you want.

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rdy-b
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« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2012, 04:38:21 PM »

>I do not know who is this guy who just learn to use poly boxes.

Allen Dick

"Allen Dick, originally from Ontario, is a beekeeper from Swalwell, Alberta. Swalwell is situated northeast of Calgary and 100 miles east of the Rockies. Allen began keeping bees in Alberta in the 70’s and gradually built up to 3500 colonies for Canola pollination and honey production. He sold out a couple of years ago and currently keeps only a few colonies. Allen maintains a website at www.honeybeeworld.com and also hosts the website of the Iowa Honey Producers. His website contains a daily diary for several years of his operation and also has cataloged information on a number of beekeeper topics. Allen is very computer oriented and well informed on issues facing the beekeeping industry. Some of his other interests include kayaking, sailing and skiing."--The Buzz Newsletter, http://www.abuzzaboutbees.com/IHPA/TheBuzz/November05/Page5.htm



 yes very nice and i would like to add for finskis benefit not to be confused with other well known ALASKA beekeeper
with the name DICK ALLEN-- cool  RDY-B
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edward
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2012, 04:46:20 PM »

I do not know who is this guy who just learn to use poly boxes. He found that hives are too air tight. He had not got teaching what to do with insulated hives.

?? Poly hive are supposed to bee air tight like a bell. With draft and ventilating over the floor to ventilate out condensation and damp.

Strange that they don't work i Alberta when they work for Swedish beekeepers.

 For Swedish beekeepers it is strange that you guys ventilate your hives through top ventilation , all the heat escapes from the hive but it seems to work if used properly.

Wooden hives need more sugar too survive the winter than poly hives , but both work if used properly.

mvh edward  tongue

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Finski
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2012, 04:50:47 PM »

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I have read from researches that mesh floor hives have 20% less mites, but I have not met report that mesh floor has saved a hive from mites or from mite treatment.  A mite population grows 100% every months. So you see that 20% has no meaning in this battle.
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derekm
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2012, 04:53:01 PM »

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Jee jee. Remember remember. You may do your beekeeping as difficult as you want.


Finski,
According to the Canadian info my bees should have melted by now, been washed away by the condensation, eaten all their stores, over run with brood, over run with mites ... yet  none of these has happened. No matter what the temp is outside, they keep the temp inside, the temp they want with no condensation visible  even at -8c Smiley

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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
rdy-b
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2012, 04:59:55 PM »

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Jee jee. Remember remember. You may do your beekeeping as difficult as you want.


Finski,
According to the Canadian info my bees should have melted by now, been washed away by the condensation, eaten all their stores, over run with brood, over run with mites ... yet  none of these has happened. No matter what the temp is outside, they keep the temp inside, the temp they want with no condensation visible  even at -8c Smiley


give it a litel more time it will come soon enough--- Wink  RDY-B
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edward
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2012, 05:13:30 PM »

Poly hives keep the heat in , but they also keep the heat out , if you live in hotter climates, Insulation !

One of the problems is that they don't do well in the suns UV rays so you need to paint them " sun screen"  cool

mvh edward  tongue
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Vance G
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2012, 09:01:43 PM »

Finski, I am almost tempted to Prompt my Albertan friend to come on here and defend himself.  But he probably doesn't need the trouble right now.  He has some illness in his family.  He is just doing a study on mite control not trying to pick a fight.  He may very well repeat the process with a drizzle, i don't know.

 He has a friend who is making fine epe hive bodies and I was really covetous til I heard about increased mite load.  They are also fairly expensive and frieght out of Canada would be prohibitively expensive.  I can see the poly boxes  advantage in cold country but don't think I am quite that cold.  I will just keep mine wrapped till May and call it good.   
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Finski
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2012, 01:39:43 AM »

Finski, I am almost tempted to Prompt my Albertan friend to come on here and defend himself.   

Do I then ask half of Europe to attack...Just stupid.... idea...

"We, half Europe",  have used so long polyhives that it has no meaning what somebody says.

But we half Europe like to debate, which bottom board is the best and what inner cover insulation is the best.
Do we need upper entrance....no yes no yes. We do not wrap hives, but those wrap because they have allways wrapped



Jep, he have good issues to keep discussion on after 20 years.

.That keeps beekeepers blood moving.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2012, 03:26:33 AM »

I spent a couple hours reading the Alberta bee keepers diary (Allen Dick).  A very impressive log indeed!  Loads of information.  I wish I was that religious in keeping a bee diary.  Sad to read about the health issues, I wish them the best.

It is amazing that on Jan 19th he reported seeing bees walking around and fanning the top entrance when it was -26C outside!  I’m not sure how you would explain that in a poly hive with only 30mm thick sides.  It seems all the bees would need to be in cluster at -26C, even in a poly hive huh 

Finski do you have an explanation?  Do your bees walk around and fan at -26C?
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edward
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« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2012, 03:55:02 AM »

Sounds like they have egg laying and brood rearing going on  Sad not a good sign

mvh edward  tongue
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BlueBee
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« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2012, 04:17:11 AM »

Edward, maybe that's why these bees are in 3 boxes!  The bees need all that food to raise brood  Smiley

I don't know how to explain it huh  My super insulated hives have 50mm polystyrene walls and are packed with bees (1 brood box).   I haven't noticed any activity at the top entrance below about -7C.  However I haven't been as observent as Allen Dick either.  
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Finski
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« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2012, 09:08:19 AM »


Finski do you have an explanation?  Do your bees walk around and fan at -26C?

Yes I have seen in cases that they had lots of brood there and they are desparately  thirsty. When I have poured half a litre water onto combs, they calm down.

But it has nothing to do with polyhive. It in queen genes that it makes brood a year around and then ´die off.

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derekm
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« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2012, 01:18:05 PM »

I spent a couple hours reading the Alberta bee keepers diary (Allen Dick).  A very impressive log indeed!  Loads of information.  I wish I was that religious in keeping a bee diary.  Sad to read about the health issues, I wish them the best.

It is amazing that on Jan 19th he reported seeing bees walking around and fanning the top entrance when it was -26C outside!  I’m not sure how you would explain that in a poly hive with only 30mm thick sides.  It seems all the bees would need to be in cluster at -26C, even in a poly hive huh 

Finski do you have an explanation?  Do your bees walk around and fan at -26C?
maybe fanning to move air for other reasons than temp control e.g. CO2, or humidity. hi
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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
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