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Author Topic: Monsanto - What do you think?  (Read 8157 times)

Offline BjornBee

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Monsanto - What do you think?
« on: January 31, 2012, 10:11:27 AM »
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Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2012, 10:32:59 AM »
Monsanto bought up many family owned seed companies selling open pollinated seeds and dumped the seeds.  It seems they just wanted the distribution channels and/or to get rid of competition from seeds you could save yourself instead of having to buy them every year.  Nothing would surprise me about this company.
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Offline ziffabeek

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2012, 08:02:16 PM »
I agree with Frameshift.  I'm not (really) a conspiracy theorist, but if anything would convince me to be one, it would be Monsanto.  They are too big, too entrenched in government, and most frightening, too silent.  You only read things 'about' them.  You never hear them 'say' anything. 

And in the dictionary, next to morally bereft corporate greed is a picture of Monsanto. 

Just sayin'.

They scare me.  (They seriously do for many reasons.  I don't care what you say about free market, capitalism, and no government oversight, this company is run amok and takes advantage of the system.  And yes, I vote with my dollars.)

(enter Kathyp ;D )

love,
ziffa

Offline ziffabeek

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2012, 08:03:02 PM »
But no, I don't really think they are creating a 'super-bee'.  That's silly.

At least I hope it is!  :-P

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ziffa


Offline BlueBee

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 08:14:00 PM »
CHINAdaily news :?  I wonder if they have any bias?

Offline SEEYA

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 08:36:08 PM »
Monsanto - nothing but scary! Check out there history with the Soybean! Can ANYBODY plant soybeans, anywhere without infringing on there patents? The way it was explained to me: Farmers don't own the seed they plant, it's licensed like software.
             
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Offline BlueBee

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 08:41:59 PM »
But patents expire at 17 years.  Then mankind can reap the good (or evil) of their work for free. 

That is unless they have gotten the politicians to give them copyright protections on their genes too.  If so, then they’ll keep on reaping $$$$ until long after we’re all dead  :evil:

Offline windfall

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2012, 09:20:46 PM »
The genetic modifications they patent become obsolete as the pests and weeds evolve resistance long before they expire; so they just develop a new round of mods and chemicals to go with them, and the cycle goes on and on and on....especially since they push out all competition and destroy alternative stocks/seedlines.

I am with Ziffa and frameshift

I don't know where they are going with their interest in bees, but you can bet it will along the same lines they have demonstrated already.

Offline hardwood

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2012, 10:27:09 PM »
Brrr...I just felt a chill run up my spine.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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Offline Old Blue

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2012, 01:26:14 AM »
Monsatin.  nuff said.

Offline doug494

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 10:41:37 AM »
OK I'm not saying they are saints.

From a business standpoint

Your business sells based on yield
Your product requires pollination by insects (including bees)
There is an unknown disease apparently wiping out these insects (yes it could be a unknown/undesired side affect from your other products, but it is happening)

So now your yields are threatened.  In addition to (hopefully) funding research to determine the cause and cure of this new disease, wouldn't you also spend R&D money to determine if you can develop an alternative way to pollinate?

Now what they do or don't do with the results of that research is a different story, but conducting the research makes sense to me.

Nomex suit is on, flame away.  :idunno:

Offline rober

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 01:28:13 PM »
the biggest problem with monsanto's & anyone else's GMO seeds is that they are polluting & destroying heritage seed banks globally. just like bees do not recognize property lines neither do wind born pollens. when these pollens cross onto neighboring crops those crops cross-pollinate & create new hybrids & the seeds produced now share the gmo dna. i mentioned on an earlier thread how monsanto gmo corn mysteriously showed up in road ditches & fallow fields in interior mexico polluting the local corn strains. funny thing is how did that corn get there? no one is growing monsnato gmo corn anywhere near that area. this is happening word-wide. in this country there are farmers growing unlicensed corn strains who save part of the crop for the next years planting. several of these farmers had their crop cross-pollinated with monsanto corn via the wind from neighboring crops. monsanto knowing this then trespassed on those farms to gather dna evidence & sued those farmers for planting unlicensed monsanto seed. i would not doubt anything corporations ( or governments ) due to further their profits or causes.
most governments these days have become branch offices of corporations anyway.

Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 03:14:09 PM »
I guess the obvious concern is this:  If Monsanto did research and found out that their seed-based fungicide was killing native bees, what would they do?  Would they stop selling the fungicide, or would they develop a (patented) bee that is immune to the fungicide.  If they developed an immune bee, they could actually increase the dosage of fungicide and when it killed all the native bees, they could sell their patented bee to replace the lost pollinators.  Do you think there is any morality or concern for the environment that would stop Monsanto or any other company from doing this?
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline bee-nuts

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2012, 03:41:34 PM »
There should be a law against patents on plants that have existed and evolved naturally.  Monsanto has gone across the world gathering wild plants like corn and putting patents on them so others cant grow or collect the seed.  pure insanity.

Farmers have no ability to stop cross contamination of genetics from a neighbors plants by the wind or insects.  Monsanto knows this will occur and that their genetics will Contaminate free genetics varieties and others and that there is no viable solution.  Monsanto is guilty of Market fixing.  If farmers seed is contaminated by Monsanto's patented genetics and Monsanto does not wish to give the farmers an exemption to harvest and use the seed then they need to pay for the lost revenue/income the farmers will suffer now and into the future.  So if the farmer is now unable to collect and plant the seed this year and plant it the next and repeat the process the following year and so on, Monsanto is liable for damages for the remaining life of the farmers.  So if the farmer is 40, Monsanto should be liable for 32 years of lost revenue If the man were to live to an average life expectancy.

Farmers have no means of preventing MONSANTO'S GENETICS from contaminating their seed.  

Monsanto essentially rapes farmers plants, gets them pregnant, then sues them for having offspring that possesses their genetics. They refuse to pay support, medical expenses etc.  If that were not insane enough, they sue the farmers for not getting abortions and put them out of business.
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Offline T Beek

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2012, 06:00:24 PM »
Monsanto's goal is to rule the world by any means necessary, and they realized long ago that controlling food (seed) is one key to that goal.  I wouldn't put it past them to desire a super bee that would displace all other pollinators so that the control gets closer to reality.  After all, US tax payers would very likely be paying for the research at some University, so for a monster like Monsanto its a win, win.

Yeah I agree, there ought to be laws that protect us from these reptiles, but we must never forget; THEY CREATE THE RULES!

However, In many places around the globe Monsanto is feeling great 'push-back' from local communities of people willing to 'stand up' to their criminal intentions (if you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything).  

India to name one, has had some great success keeping Monsanto GMO seeds at bay in small agricultural areas dependant on 'saving' their seeds (for many generations) and the word is spreading globally, even on bee forums 8-).  

As with many issues on this scale, America lags way behind, due a lack of understanding and our blind defense of criminal capitalists who are 'too BIG' to fail' and too BIG to go to jail.  That's right Monsanto is one of those.  

IMO; They'd make an awesome villian for the next James Bond Movie 8-)  It would be sooooo believable for Bond to eliminate them before they eliminated us.

thomas
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Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2012, 08:36:20 PM »


IMO; They'd make an awesome villian for the next James Bond Movie 8-)  It would be sooooo believable for Bond to eliminate them before they eliminated us.

So if I understand this correctly, you envision Bond and his lady love tied up and being attacked by Monsanto SuperBees(TM).  Just before they succumb to anaphylactic shock from the bee venom, BjornBee (well, he is the OP)  breaks down the door and sprays Bee-Quick on the doomed 007.  As Bond is carried out on a stretcher, BjornBee and the lady, who is actually a double agent working for Monsanto,  retire to Bjorn's honey house for a debriefing.....   Did I get that right?
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline windfall

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2012, 09:36:19 PM »
I thought this was old news but just in case....

Monsanto bought Beeologics last fall. I don't fully understand the technology but I believe they (beeologics) are trying to use RNA in feed supplements(remebee) to transmit immunity to some of the viruses bees face.

The obvious questions are:
How deeply do the patented insertions go; are they a "dead end" treatment or do they become incorporated into the reproductive genome?
Are they going to drift into the stock of non-users much like pollen contamination of crops?
What sort of unintended consequences are possible with this sort of genetic tampering?

Perhaps it will be a tremendous boon to beekeepers, solving all sorts of problems. I hear it is a great ride when you make a deal with the devil...until it is time to pay your dues.

If someone here does have a good understanding of this research (in trials for a while I understand) or can point to some reasonably unbiased source of info...I am interested.

Offline kingbee

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2012, 12:16:28 AM »
Monsanto bought up ...family owned seed companies selling open pollinated seeds... you could save yourself instead of having to buy them every year...

What ever cranks your tractor.  But come on, FAMILY OWNED SEED COMPANIES?

Perhaps the reason these family owned seed companies are no longer in business is because they were (like you said) selling open pollinated seeds you could save yourself.  There is not a whole lot of demand for something you can get for free is there?  But I guess you get what you pay for.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 03:20:25 AM by kingbee »

Offline FRAMEshift

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2012, 12:37:51 AM »
What ever cranks your tractor.  But come on, FAMILY OWNED SEED COMPANIES?

If you are surprised, I guess that's a sign of the extent to which we have become the Corporate State.  Do you think that only giant, publicly traded corporations have anything of value to offer.  As late as the 1980s, most seed companies were small, family owed operations.  Many of them offered quality open pollinated seed and they maintained a huge genetic diversity.  Big agricultural and pharmaceutical companies bought out those small seed companies and destroyed the seed stocks.  They just used the customer lists to peddle a narrow range of hybrid major crop seeds with little genetic diversity.  Those companies are using seeds to control access to food.  I think that is a very serious matter and it cranks my tractor pretty hard.
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Offline kingbee

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Re: Monsanto - What do you think?
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2012, 12:57:52 AM »
... As late as the 1980s, most seed companies were small, family owed operations.  Many of them offered quality open pollinated seed and they maintained a huge genetic diversity...

Since we are speaking about Monsanto lets get our terms in order. What do you consider open pollinated? I'll grant you that the company retailing the seeds at you local garden center or even many farm suppliers MAY be or MAY have been a family owned operation but for years and years the people producing and wholesaling those seed were not a "family" owned businesses any more that the convenience store down the street bottles and refines the soft drinks and gasoline they sell.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 01:10:21 AM by kingbee »