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Author Topic: 6pk on the Way to 11 Frame Langstroth Setup  (Read 1122 times)
ScooterTrash
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« on: March 19, 2012, 11:01:20 AM »

Built 30medium supers/brood boxes & custom foundationless narrow frames (aka 11 frames per box), upper entrance, ventilated/intercover. 6pkgs of bees will be here next month and still have not sorted out some immediate concerns.

So the plan is no foundation will be provided for these packages? New beekeeper here so no empty natural cell comb on hand?

When releasing the queen on the bottom board (Westhive Bettle Trap) remove her cage at that time as well?

I still have time to knock out some 5frame NUCs if that might of benefit?

Throughly enjoying MB book and Huber's observations.

Thanks, Dwight
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AllenF
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« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2012, 07:56:46 PM »

Look into starter strips on your frames just to help the bees out some.  Then they will build on it straight.   When installing the package, let the bees remove the queen themselves through the candy hole.   Check in 48 hours and remove her then if she is in still in there.   If you release her then, she might be killed or they may leave your hive.  Nuc boxes are good for swarms and splits but start the packages off in full boxes.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2012, 08:00:44 PM »

 I like to use wire in foundationless I like all so use starter strip If I had no  draw comb I use 1"or 2" of wax
foundation. And I may use 2 or 3 full sheet foundation in the middle of the box and LEVEL the hives when the bees are draw comb.  Just my $0.02

From what I have read the wire must be 100% imbedded or the bees will not draw comb properly.

Not true,  the bee will draw comb just fine around the wire.  In fact, I use and recommend wiring foundationless frames as well.

Quote
I found a site that said to use a 24 volt transformer to get the wires hot so they will melt into the wax.

Another simple method is to use a 12V car battery charger.  
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I have been informed by many beeks that just pins alone are not enough to keep the foundation from warping, or falling apart during extraction.

I totally agree, push in pins are useless.  then support such a tiny area of the foundation that they easily break through with just a minimal force.
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I hear there is a tool with spurs on it for embedding wire as well.

Yes there is,  I have never used one.


I wire the frames as tightly as I can by hand,  and then use one of these to tighten up the wire.

You want the wire tight enough so you get a nice high ping out of it.  Like plucking a guitar.   When you heat the wire to embed it in the wax,  it will loose some of it's tension.

Then I weave the foundation through the wires and install it in the frame.  So a deep with 4 wires would have wires 1 & 3 on one side of the foundation and wires 2 & 4 on the other side.

I then place the frame in a foundation board, which is basically a board that will fit inside the frame,  so when you lay the frame on it,  the foundation is supported by this board and the frame is floating off the bench.  This allows you to put some pressure on the wire and push it into the wax.

Then take the battery charger an touch opposite ends of a wire until it gets warm enough to soften the foundation.  The time depends on the charger/transformer you use.  It is a trial and error to get what is right for your set up.   Just don't keep it on for too long or you will melt right through the foundation and cut it in half.  As soon as you seen the wax changing color by the wire, remove the charger and immediately take your fingers and press the wire into the wax until the wax sets.   It does not have to be entirely embedded.   The purpose of the wire is to keep the foundation from sagging until the bees draw it out.  Do the two wire on the top side and then flip the frame over and do the two wires on the other side.


Hope this helps.

Rob....



 Hope this helps you


    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley
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ScooterTrash
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2012, 09:23:46 PM »

AllenF, top bar is triangle pointing down; 1-1/8' from top of top bard to apex of triangle & since triangle no place to attache starter strip.
I have no plans to wire frames as the hives will not be transported anywhere. Appreciate the input keep it coming.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2012, 11:33:35 PM »

>So the plan is no foundation will be provided for these packages? New beekeeper here so no empty natural cell comb on hand?

I'm not sure of the question.  But if you have a good comb guide that will work fine.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#emptyframes

>When releasing the queen on the bottom board (Westhive Bettle Trap) remove her cage at that time as well?

Yes.

>I still have time to knock out some 5frame NUCs if that might of benefit?

I wouldn't bother.

>Throughly enjoying MB book and Huber's observations.

Wish I could get some reviews on Huber on Amazon... and The Practical Beekeeper wouldn't hurt either.

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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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ScooterTrash
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2012, 02:13:24 AM »

MB, Thanks. I had already for Practical Bee Keeper & just finished up for Huber's 1 & 2 comments.
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