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Author Topic: Smart Moves by Congress  (Read 4434 times)

Offline BlueBee

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Smart Moves by Congress
« on: December 28, 2011, 04:16:18 AM »
We probably won’t find many cases where Smart and Congress go together, but I thought I would start a tread to that effect!  I think they actually agreed to something smart here:

Congress has FINALLY ended the 6 billion a year subsidy to the Corn Ethanol Makers!  That’s 45 cents a gallon extra you and I pay for low BTU ethanol.  This has always seemed like an insane idea to me; turning food into fuel.  A process some numbers say consumes more energy than it produces.  Glad to see it has finally ended.  Hate to see my Michigan Democratic Senators actually supported this dumb subsidy.  Congress also finally ended the tariffs on Brazilian sugar cane ethanol.  http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20111224/AUTO01/112240320

Anybody know of anything else Smart the Congress has done lately?

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2011, 04:24:16 AM »
You give them too much credit.  They did NOT do something smart, they STOPPED doing something stupid... not the same thing... but at least a step in the right direction...
Michael Bush
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Offline iddee

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2011, 09:21:49 AM »
""Anybody know of anything else Smart the Congress has done lately?""

Every year.... ADJOURN!!
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Offline kathyp

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2011, 10:17:02 AM »
you beat me to it!

Rick Perry stole my idea of time limits for congress.  i always thought that was a much better idea than term limits.

ok, smart things....maybe making the president SOGOTP on the oil line?
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline SEEYA

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2011, 12:05:05 AM »
But, as always, each silver lining has a dark cloud.
The American Farmer has made record profits because of the ethanol subsidy. They have expanded their businesses and have purchased machinery and property (on credit). I fear a return to the "farm aid" days!

Ain't it amazing though- Congress in its wisdom, didn't touch the oil and gas industry's subsides!
Live long and prosper!

Offline BlueBee

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2011, 12:24:04 AM »
There’s an extra 2 billion mouths to feed since the days of Farm Aid and John Mellencamp.  Supply vs Demand is now in the favor of the farmer.  The farmers are going to be the oil men and bankers of tomorrow.  We can survive without oil, but we can’t survive without food or water.  The farmers around me seem to be prospering. 

Ray, just wait until Michigan can sell the rest of the country our water at $150 a barrel!

Offline Intheswamp

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2011, 10:30:14 AM »
Governments and kingdoms have controlled whole populations of people groups by controlling food and water supplies.  Many examples in history of this.  The countries that we import food from very well know the pulse of our food production and reserves.  The food supply and production of this country should have a much higher priority in regards to national security than what I believe it does.  During the Great Depression people managed...scratching up a little garden, killing a rabbit here...a robin there...steeling a chicken...a day's labor for a meal.  Problem is, they're ain't enough rabbits and robins to go around now.  A major kink in the supply line and suddenly we have very major problems in the country...and our friends in China, Vietnam, Russia, south America, etc., will be only too glad to "help us". 

Think of how food and supplies disappear upon the warning of a big snowstorm or hurricane approaching...shelves are emptied.  A couple of days after the "event" the shelves are replenished and life goes on.  What happens if there is nothing in the pipeline to replenish the shelves with?

I can't help but give the farmers a "pass" on making profits on FOOD products...at least they're feeding the country.  On the other hand, I just can't find a soft spot in my heart for the oil barons and speculators of all kinds.

Ed
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American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

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Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2011, 10:48:09 AM »
>Think of how food and supplies disappear upon the warning of a big snowstorm or hurricane approaching...shelves are emptied.  A couple of days after the "event" the shelves are replenished and life goes on.  What happens if there is nothing in the pipeline to replenish the shelves with?

We now have systems where they keep even lower inventories by keeping more careful track with a computer.  They only have enough food for a day or so in the grocery store and it is replenished daily with what they need that day.  If the supply were cut off they would be out in less than a day once the panic set in, it would only be a matter of hours.
Michael Bush
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2011, 11:03:20 AM »
Quote
On the other hand, I just can't find a soft spot in my heart for the oil barons and speculators of all kinds.

you might have a change of heart if the oil suddenly stops.   ;) many of those companies are not the big oil companies.  a huge amount of extraction and exploration in this country is done by small companies.  http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2011-04-07-oil-drilling-rules-affect-wildcatters.htm
while i don't favor subsidies for anything, better for oil and food, which we need, than little green cars that don't work.

and there is something truly wrong with a system that loans money to foreign oil companies for extraction/exploration while at the same time restricting our own business.  there is something truly wrong with a country that would rather import coal, the dig our own!

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline SEEYA

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2011, 06:05:35 PM »
 just wait until Michigan can sell the rest of the country our water at $150 a barrel!
 X:X   X:X   X:X

Interstate commerce. They would just take it from us! We can't even get an ILLEGAL canal closed down.

We get that pipeline from Canada to New Orleans built, should anything happen to it. :evil: Millions of barrels of goop floating down the Missouri / Mississippi River(s). We might get $300 a barrel! Nah, never happen! That pipeline that polluted the Kalamazoo River was just a fluke.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 06:25:23 PM by ray »
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Offline kathyp

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2011, 08:52:15 PM »
yup.  better if we do nothing and keep importing from the middle east. 
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline luvin honey

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2011, 09:17:22 PM »
There’s an extra 2 billion mouths to feed since the days of Farm Aid and John Mellencamp.  Supply vs Demand is now in the favor of the farmer.  The farmers are going to be the oil men and bankers of tomorrow.  We can survive without oil, but we can’t survive without food or water.  The farmers around me seem to be prospering. 

Ray, just wait until Michigan can sell the rest of the country our water at $150 a barrel!

Well, then perhaps DH and I will achieve our non-dreams of great wealth!

I don't see this happening. Even though we've had a great 2 years, farming cycles pretty wildly and Americans are not willing to pay much for their food. And we can buy our food from other nations. Even our food has gone global.

I'm happy to not be subsidizing ethanol any longer. It was a great idea but never got to the point of efficiency. Plus the problem with most of our food and even packaging based on corn, it had too much crucial competition.
The pedigree of honey
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Is aristocracy.
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Offline BlueBee

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2011, 12:12:17 AM »
Lovin honey, I wonder what color of Lamborghini you’ll be getting?   

Jim Rogers says “Farmers are going to have the Lamborghinis in the future, not the brokers on wall street”



http://jimrogersnews.com/251/jim-rogers-farmers-will-drive-lamborghinis-pt-12-mar-09-09/

(Jim Rogers is a famous commodity trader; talks about farming at 6mins into the video)

Offline SEEYA

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2011, 09:35:06 AM »
They are cheaper than tractors  :jawdrop:
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Offline Larry Bees

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2012, 07:40:40 PM »
We probably won’t find many cases where Smart and Congress go together, but I thought I would start a tread to that effect!  I think they actually agreed to something smart here:

Congress has FINALLY ended the 6 billion a year subsidy to the Corn Ethanol Makers!  That’s 45 cents a gallon extra you and I pay for low BTU ethanol.  This has always seemed like an insane idea to me; turning food into fuel.  A process some numbers say consumes more energy than it produces.  Glad to see it has finally ended.  Hate to see my Michigan Democratic Senators actually supported this dumb subsidy.  Congress also finally ended the tariffs on Brazilian sugar cane ethanol.  http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20111224/AUTO01/112240320

Anybody know of anything else Smart the Congress has done lately?


We thought that this was a smart move by Congress, but I just heard on the news that because they didn't renew the subsidy, that the price of gasoline here in Florida went up overnight 5 cents per gallon to make up for it. I haven't been out today to see if this is true, but I assume that it is.

Larry

Offline BlueBee

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2012, 07:53:33 PM »
Larry, we can probably thank the Iranians for that extra 5 cents/gallon.   Sometimes you have to wonder if the OPEC dictators purposely rattle the sabers just to bump up the price of oil so THEY get even more dollars!  Their own version of pumping and dumping.

How much does it REALLY cost them to pump the stuff from the ground? $5?

Offline kathyp

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2012, 10:28:19 PM »
isn't OPEC like a union?  ;)
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline kathyp

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2012, 10:30:02 PM »
Quote
that the price of gasoline here in Florida went up overnight 5 cents per gallon to make up for it.

the didn't get rid of the stupid mandate for using it, they just quit subsidizing it. 
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline BlueBee

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2012, 11:09:12 PM »
If you want to compare OPEC to an American entity, I would propose the board and execs at Enron would come pretty close.  They manufactured a fake energy crisis on the west coast and laughed all the way to the bank as they bilked the west coast with fraud.   Anybody remember those Enron traders’ tapes?  In response to a forest fire shutting down a high voltage transmission line into CA:  "Burn, baby, burn. That's a beautiful thing," a trader sang about the massive fire.

Oil is back over $100 a barrel, hold on to your hats.

Offline kathyp

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2012, 11:16:22 PM »
enron was one thing.  OPEC is a joining of many for their own good.  sounds unionish to me
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline SEEYA

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2012, 12:21:09 AM »
Actually it seems more like a co-operative. You know socialists (if you don't like em) and capitalist (if you do).
I belong to an electric co-op and that is a capitalistic idea? I buy energy and they sell it.

Originally a bunch of people pooled their resources, and for the good of all, formed a social enterprise, probably with the aid of a government hand out.

HMMMMM ...... but I'll bet that if OPEC was an Company, listed on a stock exchange, There would be a lot of capitalists applauding its track record.  :evil:
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 12:50:40 AM by ray »
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Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2012, 12:29:17 AM »
"Automakers and other groups have opposed approval of E15, warning it could damage engines in some models. Automakers "unanimously expressed concerns that E15 is likely to harm engines, void warranties and reduce fuel efficiency," said the congressional letter."

Could cause damage?
E10 is destroying our old tractors. I have had to make numerous repairs to my tractors due to congress mandating using this stuff.
Jim
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Offline BlueBee

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2012, 01:36:09 AM »
NOBODY wants low BTU corn in their engines except for the huge corn growers and the politicians they pay to keep in office.   Kind of reminds of when the Defense Department TELLS Congress they don’t want some new plane, but Congress shoves it down their throats anyways….WITH OUR MONEY.  Corporate welfare is alive is kicking. 

Offline BlueBee

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2012, 01:53:45 AM »
HMMMMM ...... but I'll bet that if OPEC was an Company, listed on a stock exchange, There would be a lot of capitalists applauding its track record.  :evil:

There’s nothing Wall Street loves more than a monopoly.  Monopolies make tons of $$$$ and capitalists love $$$$.  Exxon has been the most valuable company in the world; or battling with Apple.  Capitalists love them to the tune of 412 BILLION dollars!!!  The stock’s just about back to all time highs again.

Offline Keith13

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2012, 12:29:56 PM »
HMMMMM ...... but I'll bet that if OPEC was an Company, listed on a stock exchange, There would be a lot of capitalists applauding its track record.  :evil:

There’s nothing Wall Street loves more than a monopoly.  Monopolies make tons of $$$$ and capitalists love $$$$.  Exxon has been the most valuable company in the world; or battling with Apple.  Capitalists love them to the tune of 412 BILLION dollars!!!  The stock’s just about back to all time highs again.

How is Exxon a monopoly? I bet BP, Shell, Placid, Koch, Flint hills, etc etc might beg to differ

Keith

Offline kathyp

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2012, 12:42:48 PM »
Quote
E10 is destroying our old tractors.

and all of our small engine stuff!


Quote
NOBODY wants low BTU corn in their engines except for the huge corn growers and the politicians they pay to keep in office

it was the global warming tree hugging nuts that thought this was a good idea. congress is to blame for enacting it. can't really blame the farmers for jumping on board if they are going to get paid more. 

Quote
Exxon has been the most valuable company in the world; or battling with Apple.


so what?  a company with value is what we want to invest in, isn't it?  would you invest in a failing company?  they do not have near the profit margin that apple has, but that never seems to bother the nuts when they are screaming about the nasty rich companies.  apparently, you are nasty or nice according to your product....not your behavior.

Quote
HMMMMM ...... but I'll bet that if OPEC was an Company, listed on a stock exchange, There would be a lot of capitalists applauding its track record.


it it were a profitable company operating legally, yes. 
.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville

Offline BlueBee

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2012, 01:38:57 PM »
No Exxon is not a monopoly.  They’re in the same business as OPEC though, and the proposition was that capitalists would be pouring money into OPEC if it was on a stock exchange.  A single oil company with a market cap of $412 billion would seem to support that conjecture.  Just imagine what OPEC would be worth.  Trillions. 

I don’t have a problem with Exxon making money as long as they pay taxes and we don’t subsidize them.  Seems Oil and Gas is our top industry these days, employees millions, and it’s not all bad.  There’s even some very wealthy folks in SE Ohio these days thanks to shale.

Online sawdstmakr

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2012, 08:07:31 PM »

I don't have a problem with Exxon making money as long as they pay taxes and we don't subsidize them.  Seems Oil and Gas is our top industry these days, employees millions, and it's not all bad.  There's even some very wealthy folks in SE Ohio these days thanks to shale.

Corporations don't pay taxes, they  just pass them to their customer. Congress has taught the American people that they are punishing big business by raising their taxes and making them pay their fare share but we are the ones paying those taxes with a higher price for their wares. What does congress do with that money, they pay back the people/organizations that keep them in office.
Jim
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Offline kingbee

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Re: Smart Moves by Congress
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2012, 01:15:19 AM »
""Anybody know of anything... Smart ...Congress has done lately?""

They took $400,000,000 dollars of that 6 billion and spent it on cotton subsdies.... in Brazil.

I'm sorry, I though your question was a test or a joke.  But the above is the truth.  Oh well, I guess Obama's sugar daddy George Sorus and his Brazilian investments needs the help!