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Author Topic: Made in America  (Read 14324 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #180 on: December 27, 2011, 11:34:31 PM »

that might be one of the better pieces he's written.  even he can get it!  first thing to do with something middle aged and bloated is to put it on a diet!  have we not all been there?  evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #181 on: December 28, 2011, 05:47:34 AM »

Can't say I've ever been on a diet, so no (and I'm on the other side of middle age Wink).  
Dieting is unnecessary; Do more, eat less. Its a lifestyle.

I'm not surprised kathyp 'had' to place a 'label' on HG, she does it all the time, labling people that is.   She also likes to 'assign' reading projects to any who disagrees.  I do agree that HG was a humanist, though I doubt he'd like the label.  Lables have implied connotations and people are just too complex to label them IMO.
  
Since kathyp has not yet grasped HG I guess I'd like to return the favor and assign "Progress and Poverty" by HG.  Maybe once completed, we can then continue this discussion.

Read the book.  HG methods have NEVER really been implemented.  Doesn't everyone want to know WHY?  That alone should spur some of you on to investigate.

Dave Brooks heh?  His most glaring flaw comes from his inability to see the BIG Picture.  He completely missed the reality of our current situation by focusing on the US and not the entire world.  We ARE a global economy now, like it or not, and we must start behaving like it or the coming pain will be unbearable for many.

thomas
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 06:12:23 AM by T Beek » Logged

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."
boca
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« Reply #182 on: December 28, 2011, 08:29:04 AM »

It helped me a lot in making decisions in my life reading classical economics like Adam Smith, David Ricardo and Henry George. Their work does not give a popular and banal answer to everyday questions, but they give the fundamentals to think on your own. That is too difficult to many of us.

There are quite many economists who stick to a scientific approach and use logic to explain today's social problems and propose solutions. They are often marginalized, ignored or ridiculed.

One of them I read regularly is prof. Fred Foldvary. Every Monday he publishes an article at http://progress.org. Hundreds of his articles are available on that site.
As an example: Imagine we are in 2004. The "New Economy" is running at full steam. Then you read this article: http://www.progress.org/2004/fold334.htm

If you don't know the foundations it sounds ridiculous. If you do understand it you can make wise decisions. For example in current matters in Europe: http://www.progress.org/2011/fold732.htm

You Americans have to be proud that you have such economists.
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iddee
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« Reply #183 on: December 28, 2011, 08:51:45 AM »

"""I'm not surprised kathyp 'had' to place a 'label' on HG, she does it all the time, labling people that is.   She also likes to 'assign' reading projects to any who disagrees."""

Nice personal attack. Are they condoned here now?
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
kathyp
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« Reply #184 on: December 28, 2011, 09:13:20 AM »

not to worry iddee, it's the fall back position when people have nothing else to say  grin  i'm not sure what reading assignment he's talking about, but i do like to share when i find something interesting. 

i actually thought the reading assignment was to me.  i guess i'd better read more carefully......
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #185 on: December 28, 2011, 10:09:38 AM »

Some likely 'wish' I had nothing to say.

Just stating the truth though.  Do we really need to pull up some examples (from over 10,000 posts there's a lot)?

Actually I thought my words above were pretty clear, please review. 

Maybe the 'labling people and assigning of reading tasks' as a response to anothers opinion/advise isn't as acceptable when turned around?  Perhaps? 

Does it only depend on 'who's' providing the opinion or advise, because that's how it seems.  Its not enough for some to just disagree, right?  Right?

To those who've been around here for a while, tell us all right now how this is supposed to work.  There's plenty of condescending to go around, accompanied by snide remarks much too often.  Acceptable for some, but not for others (is this a hierarchy of beekeepers?!)? 

Admittedly and as demonstrated; It certainly brings out the worst in me embarassed.  Anyone else?

Trying to be respectful or polite gets you ridiculed real quick around here, so when it creeps out of me now and then, well.....its a likely reason why so many beeks have fled this place over the years (finally completed my reading of 'this' thread from beginning to present day, yikes!!!).

thomas
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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."
kathyp
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Location: boring, oregon


« Reply #186 on: December 28, 2011, 10:23:06 AM »

seems to be a lot of whining too.

i don't think that labels are inherently bad.  they may not always be correct.  they are a way to help identify where people stand on issues and we use them for other and ourselves.

if you apply a label to me and i think it's wrong, i'll certainly try to correct it, but i won't be offended by it.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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