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Author Topic: FOR ALL THE IDIOTS WHO ADORE OUR WORTHLESS LEADER..  (Read 5621 times)
iddee
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« on: November 26, 2011, 07:49:04 PM »


Subject: Kiss GE Goodbye
 
General Electric is planning to move its 115-year-old X-ray division from Waukesha, Wis., to Beijing. In addition to moving the headquarters, the company will invest $2 billion in China and train more than 65 engineers and create six research centers. This is the same GE that made $5.1 billion in the United States last year. but paid no taxes-the same company that employs more people overseas than it does in the united States.
 
So let me get this straight. President Obama appointed GE Chairman Jeff Immelt to head his commission on job creation (job czar). Immelt is supposed to help create jobs. I guess the President forgot to tell him in which country he was supposed to be creating those jobs.
If this doesn't show you the total lack of leadership of this President, I don't know what does. Please pass this information to others and think about it before you buy a GE product.




http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/27/ge-moving-x-ray-business-to-china-what-message-is-sent-to-u-s/
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« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2011, 08:40:04 PM »

Don't hate me, but if I owned a company like GE and had 2 billion to invest and since I don't like paying taxes, I would move out of the country also.  To stay competitive in a global market where you are selling against companies that have lower labor wages and pay less in taxes, you have have to move or die.   I don't understand how they made 5.1 billion and got away without paying any taxes.   Maybe loop holes or investments.   But you have to do something to stay alive today.
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« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2011, 11:40:52 PM »

Wow, maybe I ate some bad Turkey, but I have to agree with iddee on this one.
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rgy
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« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2011, 09:06:23 AM »

job creation in this country is dead until this administration is gone and his job killing policies are gone.  Who is going to create jobs when you still don't know what the disastrous Obama-care is going to cost you?
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sterling
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« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2011, 05:45:41 PM »

Don't hate me, but if I owned a company like GE and had 2 billion to invest and since I don't like paying taxes, I would move out of the country also.  To stay competitive in a global market where you are selling against companies that have lower labor wages and pay less in taxes, you have have to move or die.   I don't understand how they made 5.1 billion and got away without paying any taxes.   Maybe loop holes or investments.   But you have to do something to stay alive today.
That may explain why GE would move but does not explain why Obama would hire Immelt to be his job czar. huh The United States job czar huh
You would be hard pressed to find one competent person in this administration.
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T Beek
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« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2011, 06:23:39 AM »

I generally stay away from this place (too many complainers offering too few solutions), but its getting cold and Hunting season is over till next year...so........(meat in the freezer (or jars) is as good as wood in the woodshed cool

In a so-called 'free country' whining and complaining (name calling) about 'any' administration and then blaming 'it' for all your 'perceived' troubles is about as far away from democracy as one can get IMO.  In case some have forgotten, Obama only appointed Immelt to satisfy the demands from the right, or have some of you been misinformed?  And GE has been doing its dirty business for a very long time, well before Obama was even born (there it is, if you have to put a face on the problem, its that little electric guy from GE, now that's a good place to start).  

For those earnest students of history out there you already know; Its hard to please everyone in a democracy and ours is a particularly messy one, but just compaining about it does little to correct anything and in fact helps those who wish to do us harm (see the cat, see the cradle).  And just voting every four years, that really counts for very little IMO.  It is our duty as 'freedom loving people' (right???) to be involved and aware every day, not just on election day (too few of us are aware even on that day).  

What happened to America?  We happened to America.  The mess we find ourselves can be blamed only on us, not the 'tools and fools' we send to elected office, and most Americans are either too lazy or too overwhelmed (by debt or TV) to do anything other than survive another day, week, month.........and endlessly complain instead of getting involved.

Its 'your' country people, get busy if you got a gripe.  Get involved with the process (sorry, but that doesn't include sitting on the sidelines complaining, wah-wah) before we all lose the right to change things (we're pretty close already as most can attest).  Get informed (start by changing the channel....often or better yet, just turn that crap off and go to the nearest library).

There's no such thing as an innocent bystander, cuz if you're just standing by (complaining), you're not innocent (you're the problem).  

Sorry if anyone is offended by this rant, but sometimes this site needs some reality injected (be happy I don't visit more often grin

So, bring on the clowns, idiots need not apply grin

thomas
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 06:42:32 AM by T Beek » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2011, 07:32:41 AM »

TBeek,
I don't see anything wrong in your post. It is truly the electorate that has happened to our country.
 But a lot of this also falls back on the education system.The last thing they seem to teach anymore is American History. We are so hell bent on absorbing all these other cultures and teaching that we have to tolerate every crackpot idea that washes up on our shores that we are losing our culture to foreign invaders.
 Remember apologizing to the Japanese for winning a war they started? We do not have to be sorry for being Americans.
  We need to stand proud,elect people that represent us, and do better at informing people of a candidates policies rather than worry about what music he listens to,what kind of underwear he wears.
If we get rid of the blame America and apologists in the Capitol,we can make strides in the other direction.Vote for someone that represents your ideals,not the popular guy.
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iddee
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« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2011, 07:58:50 AM »

Some may call it whining and complaining, where others call it communication and forming a consensus.

Without it, we as a citizenry, cannot make the changes that need to be made.
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« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2011, 08:27:28 AM »

So what are you saying iddee?  Do you think China is better for business than the US?  Do you think we should emulate China's industrial policy?  Or is it just a matter of cheap, well educated labor? 

The US under the Bush administration stopped investing in education and infrastructure.   If we don't educate kids or repair bridges or build mass transit.... then of course China is going to win.  They are doing now the things we did as a nation in the 1950s and 1960s.   They are doing what we did to build our nation.   Our top marginal tax rate in the 1950s was 85%.   High marginal tax rates don't inhibit growth.... they fund growth.

Obama is showing outstanding leadership.  Republicans in Congress have a problem with followership.  They are putting their party plans ahead of the interests of the country.  Specifically, they are blocking legislation that they originally proposed themselves... just because Obama is suggesting it.   Now Obama is suggesting that we maintain the cut in payroll taxes, but Republicans want a tax increase on the working class.  And  you criticize Obama?
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T Beek
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« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2011, 09:02:59 AM »

The 'dumbing down' of American schools (and us) and the amount of indebtedness now incurred when attending our universities is no accident.  Our true priorities in this Country have been usurped and forgone, replaced by profits for the few, while most citizens are asleep at the wheel or shopping at the mall and having their pockets picked.

However, in a free society where information is widely available there is never an excuse  for just "following the leader"  because you'll be led over a cliff while your (and your neighbors) pockets are picked by doing so (see 1980-present).  So while we can certainly blame the 'direction' our education system has taken, its still 'our' fault for allowing it and as said, The 'truth' is out there, you just have to look (as opposed to repeating the crap started by some tool for the elite)

This is nothing new.  Distractions (and divisions) have been a tool for the powerful for thousands of years.  Yet despite advances in communication humans are still mostly motivated and thus manipulated by those with the most power (and dollars equal power) and their loudmouths on the airwaves.

Americans should be taking a clue from Egyptians and Syrians, along with our brown skinned brothers and sisters from South America.  They're showing us what democracy 'by the people' really looks like, because they are willing to die for it (as are some of the 'occupy' folks IMO, never saw any Tea party members camping on the concret for months!).  

Americans have mostly forgotten that it takes effort to keep a Country free from tyranny (and I don't mean sending our youth off to fight "rich men wars" I mean fighting against rich men who only want to get richer by sending our youth to war) whether from the outside or the inside.  

Last I heard the percentage of Americans who regularly challenge their elected officials, either by mail or phone or by showing up at meetings and/or "occupations" (we still have a right to assemble) when issues are being addressed is less than .001%.  

"THAT" is why we have a plutocracy instead of a democracy in America and THAT is precisely what 'some' of our founders had in mind from the very beginning and what 'real' conservatives (the wealthy elite) want today.  

The U.S Constitution is what we've got and we should all thank our lucky stars (or whom/what ever you pray to)  that we have it still to fall back on, once we finish rubbing the sleep from our eyes that is.  I just hope its not too late and Americans begin resulting to the 'Mussolini' fix.  Some are already using that type of Rhetoric when referencing the President and I wonder if they felt the same under the last administration.  

I know of many who NEVER gave this Country a thought, most never even bothered to vote in an election of any kind until Obama took office.  Now all of a sudden they've become experts because they follow a certain blowhard.  Really?  Is that all it takes?  

IMO That's just lazy and lazy Americans deserve exactly what "we" all have to contend with in this Country I'm afraid.  

Its always frustrating to see how many continue to serve the masters when its the master screwing them, then blaming everyone but themselves rolleyes for their own lack of participation.  

I take the phrase "Question Authority"  very seriously (and have the scars to prove it), it is our right, but more importantly it is our responsibility (that is unless one enjoys giving all the fruits of ones labor to the crooks and sociopaths of this world).  

Complaining and blaming without 'direct action' (putting your neck out) is the easy way to nowhere.  

How can one call someone(s) or their beliefs an IDIOT and then claim to be forming a consensus?Huh?? huh

Whew, that's about enough of that for a Monday morning Smiley heh?  Don't know what got into me Wink

thomas
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 09:20:39 AM by T Beek » Logged

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T Beek
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« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2011, 09:26:03 AM »

Some may call it whining and complaining, where others call it communication and forming a consensus.

Without it, we as a citizenry, cannot make the changes that need to be made.


What does that even mean?  The changes that 'need' to be made.

thomas
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« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2011, 09:32:47 AM »

Quote
In a so-called 'free country' whining and complaining (name calling) about 'any' administration and then blaming 'it' for all your 'perceived' troubles is about as far away from democracy as one can get IMO
.

that's good. we aren't a democracy so it's nice that we aren't acting like one....except that this admin would already be gone....oh well.

Quote
In case some have forgotten, Obama only appointed Immelt to satisfy the demands from the right, or have some of you been misinformed?


which demand was this?

Quote
Its hard to please everyone in a democracy and ours is a particularly messy one, but just compaining about it does little to correct anything and in fact helps those who wish to do us harm (see the cat, see the cradle).  


and again....not a democracy
and complaining about politics is one of the hallmarks of freedom.  it's what those in countries run by totalitarian government don't get to do.  it, in fact, is a sport that goes back to our founding.

Quote
Its 'your' country people, get busy if you got a gripe.  Get involved with the process (sorry, but that doesn't include sitting on the sidelines complaining, wah-wah)

ah, a tea party fan!!

Quote
So what are you saying iddee?  Do you think China is better for business than the US?  Do you think we should emulate China's industrial policy?  Or is it just a matter of cheap, well educated labor?  

The US under the Bush administration stopped investing in education and infrastructure.   If we don't educate kids or repair bridges or build mass transit.... then of course China is going to win.  They are doing now the things we did as a nation in the 1950s and 1960s.   They are doing what we did to build our nation.   Our top marginal tax rate in the 1950s was 85%.   High marginal tax rates don't inhibit growth.... they fund growth.

Obama is showing outstanding leadership.  Republicans in Congress have a problem with followership.  They are putting their party plans ahead of the interests of the country.  Specifically, they are blocking legislation that they originally proposed themselves... just because Obama is suggesting it.   Now Obama is suggesting that we maintain the cut in payroll taxes, but Republicans want a tax increase on the working class.  And  you criticize Obama?

the US under the bush admin did not stop investing in anything.  in fact, there was a massive increase.  there was a massive increase on almost all spending under Bush.  this made us unhappy....but guess what?  obama has so far outdone him that no one will remember the spending under bush  smiley

define leadership please.  and give some examples of the leadership that obama is showing?

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« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2011, 09:35:24 AM »

Do you think China is better for business than the US?
GE and a bunch of other businesses do

Do you think we should emulate China's industrial policy?
Unsustainable suicide

Or is it just a matter of cheap, well educated labor?
Cheap & well educated doesn't exist!  The only thing any government wants is 'Cheap & compliant'.  Hence the current education & labor policies; regardless of WHO made them. (*)

High marginal tax rates don't inhibit growth.... they fund growth.
Sorry Frame.  While drawing breath i will not be convinced that taking away money from the private sector doesn't diminish Innovation.  And that giving money to the government doesn't create 'Direct & Immediate' corruption.

(*) - the 'Bush' argument doesn't work on Conservatives & Constitutionalists since they blame him for more things than you might.   Your adherence to 'Blame Bush First' comes off as weak and formulaic as your 'Obama is great" attitude.  You are very intelligent and your energies can be better spent on more compelling arguments.


« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 10:06:56 AM by Hemlock » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2011, 10:11:20 AM »


Do you think we should emulate China's industrial policy?
Unsustainable suiside

If that's true, we have nothing to worry about.  But I don't see anything that's makes China's policies unsustainable on a timescale that will save our bacon.  If China stops investing in education and infrastructure, their growth rate will drop and they will become politically unstable.  They have to grow at 8% to keep their citizens from getting too interested in politics.   Yes, eventually their growth will run up against environmental limits (global warming) but they will take us down with them.
Quote

Or is it just a matter of cheap, well educated labor?
Cheap & well educated doesn't exist!  The only thing any government wants is 'Cheap & compliant'. Hence the current education & labor policies; regardless of WHO made them. (*)

The only thing any corporation wants is cheap and compliant.

High marginal tax rates don't inhibit growth.... they fund growth.
Sorry Frame.  While drawing breath i will not be convinced that taking away money from the private sector doesn't diminish Innovation.  And that giving money to the government doesn't create 'Direct & Immediate' corruption.

My view is that the free market is the engine that powers the economy.  But a car can't get anywhere with only an engine.  You have to have a steering wheel.  Market mechanisms can't decide where society wants to go.  That's what representative democracy is for.   Once you have a plan, markets are good for executing the plan in the most efficient way.   For example, we need mass transit.  Government has to pay for it, at least in the early stages just as it did for the space program.  But government is not good at managing large projects.  So the best way is for government to decide the capacity needs for transit and then let free enterprise bid to produce the system at the lowest cost.... with strict penalties for failure to meet quality and deadline requirements.
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FRAMEshift
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« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2011, 10:23:26 AM »

the US under the bush admin did not stop investing in anything.  in fact, there was a massive increase.  there was a massive increase on almost all spending under Bush.  this made us unhappy....but guess what?  obama has so far outdone him that no one will remember the spending under bush  smiley
Under Bush the support for education and infrastructure was pathetic.  Bush spent money on war.  Just spending money does not constitute investment in the country
Quote
define leadership please.  and give some examples of the leadership that obama is showing?
The American Jobs Act.   Corporations are sitting on $2 trillion in cash, waiting for somebody else to kick-start the economy.  That has to be government because private business is not going to do it.  Waiting for business to take a risk in this environment is asking for a depression.  Obama is trying to stimulate job creation by investments in education and infrastructure.  That is leadership.  And many of the ideas he is proposing were originally Republican ideas.  The same Republicans who proposed these steps now vote against them just to make Obama look like he can't get anything done.  The solution is to vote Republicans out of the Congress.
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« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2011, 10:29:48 AM »


Americans should be taking a clue from Egyptians and Syrians, along with our brown skinned brothers and sisters from South America.  They're showing us what democracy 'by the people' really looks like, because they are willing to die for it (as are some of the 'occupy' folks IMO, never saw any Tea party members camping on the concret for months!).  

I think OWS was going to happen anyway but was triggered early by the Arab Spring.   When people have no future, they don't have anything to lose.  I am grateful that... so far.... OWS has managed to remain non-violent.  I hope the Congress takes a look and decides they need to fix things before the OWS folks decide that emulating the Civil Rights movement of the 60's does not work.
Quote

Americans have mostly forgotten that it takes effort to keep a Country free from tyranny (and I don't mean sending our youth off to fight "rich men wars" I mean fighting against rich men who only want to get richer by sending our youth to war) whether from the outside or the inside.  

Exactly right Thomas.  I admire the people who risk their physical safety by exercising their right to peaceable assembly.  I am not so brave myself so I have made monetary contributions to OWS.  I think I have a responsibility to do something.
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« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2011, 10:48:41 AM »

If that's true, we have nothing to worry about.
Oh, i phrased that wrong.  I should have included "for America to emulate". 

The only thing any corporation wants is cheap and compliant.
So do we mutually agree to support Small Business & Small Government??

You have to have a steering wheel.
THAT IS YOU & I. Not a government stooge looking for votes.

Market mechanisms can't decide where society wants to go.
Yes WE do.  We ARE the market.  That's why education is so important and why my kid is home schooled.

representative democracy
*Representative Republic.

Heading out to the field.  Catch y'all later.
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« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2011, 11:36:26 AM »

http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/history/edhistory.pdf

Quote
Under Bush the support for education and infrastructure was pathetic.  Bush spent money on war.  Just spending money does not constitute investment in the country


first, it's not the feds job to fund education.  second, we spend more per student than any 1st world country, save one.  third...and again....google is your friend.  fact checking is a simple thing.

Quote
The American Jobs Act.   Corporations are sitting on $2 trillion in cash, waiting for somebody else to kick-start the economy.  That has to be government because private business is not going to do it.  Waiting for business to take a risk in this environment is asking for a depression.  Obama is trying to stimulate job creation by investments in education and infrastructure.  That is leadership.  And many of the ideas he is proposing were originally Republican ideas.  The same Republicans who proposed these steps now vote against them just to make Obama look like he can't get anything done.  The solution is to vote Republicans out of the Congress.


have you read the jobs act?  it is a second stimulus program after the 1st one worked oh so well!  if you can point out where it will "save or create jobs" we'd all be thrilled to see.
you can't take money out of the private sector, pump it into the public sector, and create anything but more debt.  where does the government get it's money?  it taxes, prints, or borrows. this is not economic growth, it is a temporary fix to make an admin look better.

i'm not sure why liberals have such a hard time understanding how the economy works.  it's not that hard.

Quote
I think OWS was going to happen anyway but was triggered early by the Arab Spring.   When people have no future, they don't have anything to lose.  I am grateful that... so far.... OWS has managed to remain non-violent.  I hope the Congress takes a look and decides they need to fix things before the OWS folks decide that emulating the Civil Rights movement of the 60's does not work.


since the problem is with government, you'd like congress to do what, exactly?
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 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2011, 12:04:19 PM »

So do we mutually agree to support Small Business & Small Government??
I have no problem with big business as long as government does it's job in regulating business.  What you can't do is trust big business to look out for the interests of the public.   The period of fastest growth in the US  (late 50s and 60s) coincides with the grand alliance of big business, big government,, and big labor.  They cut a deal that worked.  Without a strong labor movement and without government regulation, big business gets very very greedy.  That's where our problems are coming from.  

Small business is great and I want our tax policies to favor business formation.  But small business can't do everything that needs to be done.  A small business can't build a mass transit system.

Market mechanisms can't decide where society wants to go.
Yes WE do.  We ARE the market.  
We are the government because it's one person/ one vote.  We are not the market because it's one dollar/ one vote.  The market will decide what's best for the people with the most money.   Representative government is designed to determine what the people want.  But that is where the problem is.  Corporations are being allowed to contribute to political campaigns.  So once again, dollars are voting.  I agree with you that education is the cure for that disease, but home schooling is not enough because lots are parents don't know enough to adequately teach their kids.  We need strong public education.

I think your idea that WE are the market works when there is a large middle class, so that the money in the market is spread in a more even way.  But we now have the greatest concentration of wealth since the 1910s.  So the middle class is no longer the market.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 12:30:58 PM by FRAMEshift » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2011, 12:29:22 PM »

have you read the jobs act?  it is a second stimulus program after the 1st one worked oh so well! 

The first one did work.  The OMB says It created or saved 2 million jobs.  And it turned around the collapse in jobs.  When Obama came in we were losing net jobs at a rate of 700,000 per month.  After Obama had been in a year, we were gaining jobs.  That is a huge turn-around.  We are in trouble now because the money from the first stimulus has run out and companies still refuse to invest in America.  Is there no patriotic duty on the part of these big businesses to save the country that makes it possible for them to operate?  If so, they need to get on with it.  If not, the government has to do it.
Quote
i'm not sure why liberals have such a hard time understanding how the economy works.  it's not that hard.

Yeah, that always makes me laugh.  It's like children who wonder why their parents have such a hard time understanding that they should be allowed to run across a highway without looking.  It's not that hard to run across the road.   grin   

Right wing types(some of them) have grasped the basics of supply and demand and they think that makes them geniuses.  They think that liberals just don't understand supply and demand.  Afterall, it's soooo simple.  Yes, it is in it's basic theoretical formulation, and (at least some) liberals understand the law of supply and demand.  But they also know that it's an ideal, simplistic model of economic reality. 

For example, a free market requires perfect knowledge.  Supply and demand works to optimize the price only when buyer and seller have perfect knowledge of the availability of goods and the distribution of prices.  But that rarely happens in a market larger than a village.  If there is a large supply at a low price just down the road and you don't know about it, you will pay an incorrect price.  So there is a role for government in requiring transparency and fair distribution of information about pricing.  That's why insider trading is illegal.  That's why there are laws about what may be advertised as a "sale price".    And that's why there is a minimum wage.   Business can't be trusted to treat customers or employees fairly.  If we want a fair economic system, we need government regulation to prevent fraud, price gouging, etc. 

Now, if you want to revoke the ability of businesses to declare bankruptcy while protecting the personal assets of their owners, maybe we could talk.   grin
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Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
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