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Author Topic: Pollen Patties in Winter?  (Read 8880 times)
GeezzzBeezzz
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« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2012, 02:50:44 PM »

I just joined the forum about a month ago ... this string of posts was both entertaining and educational. I don't know about everyone else but having two guys who really know what they are talking about go at it in this case was great. I learned more than I was expecting when I did a search for pollen patties. I might make this into one of those cartoon videos everyone is making these days and post it back here. My hat goes of to Finski and Rdy-B. That was great and thank you! I really mean it, not joking.
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Tart words make no friends; a spoonful or honey will catch more flies than a gallon of vinegar.
~ Benjamin Franklin
Finski
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« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2012, 03:52:22 PM »

Thankfully, gratefully we all don't live in Finland grin

Finski; if you're bored by other beekeeping methods (that seem to be working for them and you even agree with once in a while) why do you keep coming around?  You can't even get the topic right in this case and seem hellbent on confusing every one. 


here is one opinion......

But I have got better my paties this spring. Bees really enjoy  the stuff.

What I have done otherwise:

- date is very  tasty to bees  - from Egyptian professor
- magnesium added  - from Egyptian professor
- multi B-vitamin    - vitamin content of queen jelly

- 7 years old Chinese pollen (last year it was 6y)

 how I know that:

when it was the first day of willow blooming, one hive had 8 frames brood.
Now willow has bloomed 10 days.  That hive has now 2 hectares willow in full bloom.
One frame brood needs one frame pollen. 

When I look patty consumption, those hives which have lots of newly emerged workers, they consume a huge amout of patty.  Brood areas are solid and beautifull.

I can only smile when I look brood frames. Beginning did not seeme goog because beesdid not get enough water for cold weather.

Now our day temperatures are hanging near 15C.

In many hives winter bees have allmost died. A month ago many hives had one box of bees. A week ago only half box. And now bos is again full.

Willow started  blooming  10 days ago and now I must add boxes because new bees  will born masses. Thanks to soya and baking yeast.

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rdy-b
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« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2012, 02:51:31 PM »

**I can only smile when I look brood frames.**

 thats great news finski-  cool--


**Willow started  blooming  10 days ago and now I must add boxes because new bees  will born masses. Thanks to soya and baking yeast.**

 Also great news --I love a Happy ending- Wink cheesy --RDY-B





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Finski
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« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2012, 12:42:37 AM »

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Besides the good patty, the more important thing  is size of colony after winter.
You start to feed a big colony, you have a month later 15 frames brood. Then month and half later you have 5 boxes bees to hit on canola fields.

If you have 5 frames bees after winter, you have 3 frames brood after a month and 2 box hive on canola. That will not get honey.

And how we get from 2 box winterer a 5 frame or even 3 frame colony during winter. It is varroa which makes that. We may report that no winter losses but we lost 50% of hives to varroa because their size went under critical point.
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And how you can do that yourself? - split your hive in spring and you are as bad as varroa.

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rdy-b
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« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2012, 01:28:13 PM »

**We may report that no winter losses but we lost 50% of hives to varroa because their size went under critical point.**

 Interesting point of view-Also we must consider SUSTAINABILITY -timing is everything for a build up and honey crop

**  split your hive in spring and you are as bad as varroa.**

 allowing for a minimum of two rounds of brood to be reared before the start of the flow-it is possible to make surplus----
even in finland-- cheesy  RDY-B
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T Beek
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« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2012, 05:13:54 PM »

I've seen less than ten varroa mites since 2007 but practice KYBO (Keep Your Broodnests Open), checkerboarding, frame manipulation (whatever one calls it these days  rolleyes) religiously, along w/ freezing a drone frame or 2 when seemingly (too me anyway) taking over.  Haven't used any pollen patties for at least as many years.  

By the time our willows begin we are very fortunate in N/W Wisconsin to have a relatively steady flow of some sort going on throughout out (most of) our summer months (our dandelions just finished  Wink, no punnnnn intended  Wink.  

Only low temps can prevent our bees from gathering....so then we feed....and feed...and sometimes we feed more,,,,,,but,,,,,, pollen always seems to be plentiful around here, so patties for the most part, make little since in "these" parts of Wisconsin, IMO.  

That said, I generally will place pollen sub 'out in the yard' (instead of inside the hive) at least once during Spring and/or Fall  (a just in case action).  Sometimes they take it, sometimes they don't.

As Sly (Stone) said; different strokes for different folks (and that can only include beekeepers too, heh?).  Many of Mr. Finski's methods or even rdyy-b methods would not work (as well) here in Wisconsin or Manitoba, Canada.  Lest we remind ourselves (harder for some) that 'all beekeeping (just like "all" politics) is local.'  cool.  

Personally, I wouldn't think of adhering to 'anyones' beekeeping methods that didn't also experience my climate, and no other beek should either.  

But that's just me.  Do whatever you want, follow whomever you want.  I too was a bee- killer for many years  Cry until I discovered that LOCAL BEES RULE!!!!  grin

t
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rdy-b
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« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2012, 05:22:46 PM »

**Personally, I wouldn't think of adhering to 'anyones' beekeeping methods that didn't also experience my climate, and no other beek should either. **

 that is spot on-there always seams to be a part of the equation that never gets brought up-for
 instance did you know that in Helsinki they experience 18 hour days of sun light in june--dont know
 about Wisco but here in cali we max at about 14----4 hours of extra forage must be good for something--EHH
  Wink  cool RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #67 on: May 15, 2012, 04:22:15 PM »

allowing for a minimum of two rounds of brood to be reared before the start of the flow-it is possible to make surplus----
even in finland-- cheesy  RDY-B

5 kilos or 50 kilos?

when I have done 22 years pollen and patty feeding in spring, it takes 2 month time to get hives to make surplus.

During that time no 1-box wintered colony is able to get surplus from garden and dandelion pastures.
Surplus hives are all 2-box winterers.

5-frame winterer colonies had done now one brood cycles and they have not even one box full of bees.
If I let them be alone, they are probably ready in July to forage surplus. But I must add 2 frames of emerging brood. So I get the box full of brood.

When queen lays now, eggs are foragers at the end of June. Do I have 5, 10 or 15 frood frames now, so I have foragers 1,5 month later.

To me 15 kg honey is nothing, because if next week is rainy, they consume it all.
I do not try to play with buttons.

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Finski
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« Reply #68 on: May 15, 2012, 04:30:49 PM »

 Many of Mr. Finski's methods or even rdyy-b methods would not work (as well) here in Wisconsin or Manitoba, Canada.

Hah hah. Canadian use very much "Finskis" methods. I have learned it from Canadians.

Very few in Finland feed with patty bees. But this is my hobby.

When I read Beemaster forum, Americans have their stupid ways what I am not going to use ever.

You are allways going here and there with your "feeding jars" and "open feeding".

Mr Beek. I would not touch even with stick to żour methods. Awfull.


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T Beek
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« Reply #69 on: May 15, 2012, 06:12:30 PM »

Fin; (we're, well YOU are anyway, picking up where we left off a few months ago) ; simply put fin, you have 'no idea' what my methods are, there's little (to no) room for anyone Else's perspective in your little world since you already know everything there is to know,,,,,,, right?

Xin Loi fin, you did me in, agin...you're much too smart for me  rolleyes  

Funny boy, my belly hurts from laughing.  At least you can admit (an interesting admission but one just the same) to 'learning' something 'from canadians' even if you then claim those methods as 'your own' methods in the same sentence.....ohhh boy, now my jaw hurts from laughing.  We all know where you're coming from fin  Wink never fooled me man.

YYURYYUBICURYYforme  grin

(language barrier my a=======)  evil

t
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Finski
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« Reply #70 on: May 15, 2012, 10:59:45 PM »

Funny boy, my belly hurts from laughing.  

We have a proverb: cry from long joy and fart from long laughing

 
Quote
At least you can admit (an interesting admission but one just the same) to 'learning' something 'from canadians' even if you then claim those methods as 'your own' methods in the same sentence.....ohhh boy, now my jaw hurts from laughing.  We all know where you're coming from fin  Wink never fooled me man.
 

I have no methods. Patty recipe is from US laboratories and early protein feeding from Canada.

 
Quote

YYURYYUBICURYYforme  grin

(language barrier my a=======)  evil


Change you medication.
Then change your avartar. It is ridiculous.

t
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rdy-b
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« Reply #71 on: May 15, 2012, 11:49:16 PM »

**when I have done 22 years pollen and patty feeding in spring, it takes 2 month time to get hives to make surplus.**

 yes two months is two rounds of brood --same thing



**5-frame winterer colonies had done now one brood cycles and they have not even one box full of bees.
If I let them be alone, they are probably ready in July to forage surplus. But I must add 2 frames of emerging brood. So I get the box full of brood.**

 5-frames is a nuc or a decent split--still two rounds of brood --or two months--same thing

** To me 15 kg honey is nothing, because if next week is rainy, they consume it all.
I do not try to play with buttons.**

15 kg wont get consumed in a week--especially if colony is one box
15 kg is light-but 30 kg from two box or story and a half is the same as 5 box 150 Kg back to same thing

 but i was Hoping you would respond to the comment i made about the length of daylight fly time compared to
 other locations i find that very interesting--
 do you have any tricks i should know about making comb honey-how many boxes do i need for that- :loll:
beautiful day in finland as i type this-- http://www.portofhelsinki.fi/port_of_helsinki/web_cameras/south_harbour
take care-- cool RDY-B

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T Beek
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« Reply #72 on: May 16, 2012, 07:54:09 AM »

rdy-b;  you may be asking for more than finski can deliver.

Finski;  Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss (or ridicule) people  Smiley

t
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Finski
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« Reply #73 on: May 16, 2012, 09:10:27 AM »

.
Beek. I ask your favour. Take that male mark off from you name, and write "balls free zone".

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VolunteerK9
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Gamecock fan in UT land.


« Reply #74 on: May 16, 2012, 09:17:34 AM »

.
Besides the good patty, the more important thing  is size of colony after winter.
You start to feed a big colony, you have a month later 15 frames brood. Then month and half later you have 5 boxes bees to hit on canola fields.

If you have 5 frames bees after winter, you have 3 frames brood after a month and 2 box hive on canola. That will not get honey.



It would seem to me that there should be a happy medium somewhere between not enough bees and too many bees if that makes any sense. I can remember my dad talking about being one of nine children and the thought at the time was that 'one more person to help work on the farm'. What wasnt considered was that it was also one more mouth to feed, clothe, and educate. Seems to me it was one step forward and two steps back way of thinking.

Randy Oliver from www.scientificbeekeeping.com wrote an article similiar to this recently-

http://scientificbeekeeping.com/2012-almond-pollination-update/


Scroll down to frame strength if you dont want to read the whole article.
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Finski
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« Reply #75 on: May 16, 2012, 10:21:41 AM »

[quote

It would seem to me that there should be a happy medium somewhere between not enough bees and too many bees if that makes any sense. I can remember my dad talking about being one of nine children and the thought at the time was that 'one more person to help work on the farm'. What wasnt considered was that it was also one more mouth to feed, clothe, and educate. Seems to me it was one step forward and two steps back way of thinking.

Randy Oliver from


my aim is to get hives early into foraging condition. So I get 2  months yild period.
If the hive is after winter small, its yiled period is only one month or 2 weeks.

I do not step tree forward and 2 backwards. And I have nothing to do with almond pollination. My productive hives are 5-7 boxes and have allways been.

After 50 beekeeping years and after 22 spring protein feeding I jump 5 steps forward.
Nothing odd id that. And not a step backwards.

When I started my beekeeping, my dad said that stop beekeeping at once.
When I was 55 y and he 80y, he asked when do I stop that stupid beekeeping.
i said, soon, very soon.

I did not say go to hell. I knew that he was going there.

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