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Author Topic: Pollen Patties in Winter?  (Read 8492 times)
Finski
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« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2011, 01:32:35 AM »

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I use 2 hives per mile.  If you have a canola field, it blooms only 2 weeks. What then?
If weather is too dry, canola  gives nothing.

 Mixture of flowers gives the aroma of yield.
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rdy-b
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« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2011, 01:40:04 PM »

  yes two sides to every coin- cool  RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2011, 05:02:07 PM »

  yes two sides to every coin- cool  RDY-B

the winners write the history

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rdy-b
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« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2011, 08:27:24 PM »

  yes two sides to every coin- cool  RDY-B

the winners write the history

.

             If you're short of trouble take a goat!-- Wink  RDY-B
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rdy-b
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« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2011, 02:10:24 PM »

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I read about vitellogenin. It exist in vast group of animal which make eggs. It is female protein.


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  more people are starting to understand what this means-today this came across my desk--RDY-B

 http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=5fd2b1aa990e63193af2a573d&id=e7b85d3fce&e=%5BUNIQID%5D
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 07:20:11 PM by rdy-b » Logged
Finski
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« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2011, 02:20:45 AM »

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Heli Havukainen is a Finnish name. Who she is?. I did not found her earlier works from google.

It seems that she works in chemistry area rather than in beekeeping.  

however Havukainen's work has been noticed widely in the world.

In internet/world are many kind of researches about vitallogenin.

.........
That name

Havu = needle twig
kainen = means nothing but it tells that man's family origin is  from Eastern Finland
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2011, 02:52:17 AM »

vitillogen?  Is this something that can be feed to the bees or is it something the bee makes itself with proteins or what?  Interesting.  I will have to search it and hopefully find the answer.

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T Beek
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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2011, 08:04:15 AM »

Interesting link, thanks.

thomas
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rdy-b
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« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2011, 02:20:44 PM »

vitillogen?  Is this something that can be feed to the bees or is it something the bee makes itself with proteins or what?  Interesting.  I will have to search it and hopefully find the answer.



 http://scientificbeekeeping.com/bee-nutrition/

   
**What if I told you that there was one amazing molecule in the honeybees’ bodies that allows them to store protein reserves, make royal jelly, promotes the longevity of queen and “winter” bees, is a part of their immune system, allows them to brood up in spring in the absence of pollen, and has an effect upon their foraging behavior? Surely you’d want to be familiar with such an important molecule!**

Its name? Vitellogenin

 Wink  RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2011, 04:31:54 PM »

.
That is real children fairytales. It is more poetry than science.

If you read wikipedia, it says it better.

Vitellogening exist in all animals which produce eggs. birds, fishes, nematodes....It it precursor of protein. Nothing more.


 You get a scientific research into you hands and you deliver fairytales.
That is big  waste.

.
********

Put into google "amino acids of vitellogenin" , you get some idea what the stuff is

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« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 04:50:39 PM by Finski » Logged

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rdy-b
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« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2011, 06:25:07 PM »


  http://scientificbeekeeping.com/bee-nutrition/

*** Vitellogenin

O.K., in my roundabout way, I’m finally going to get to my point. Bees not only store pollen and honey in the combs, but they also store food reserves in their bodies. This is done mainly in the form of a compound called “vitellogenin.” vitellogenin is classed as a “glycolipoprotein,” meaning that is has properties of sugar (glyco, 2%), fat (lipo, 7%), and protein (91%) (Wheeler & Kawooya 2005). Vitellogenin is used by other animals as an egg yolk protein precurser, but bees have made it much more important in their physiology and behavior, using it additionally as a food storage reservoir in their bodies, to synthesize royal jelly, as an immune system component, as a “fountain of youth” to prolong queen and forager lifespan, as well as functioning as a hormone that affects future foraging behavior!

This is a great example of the conservatism of evolution. Just as the same genes that code for a fish’s fins also code for a dog’s paw, a human hand, or a bird or bat’s wing, bees have expanded the role of vitellogenin to perform multiple functions in their systems. They are able to do this because most of the bees in a colony are sterile females who rarely lay eggs. Therefore, they have the mechanism to produce this egg yolk precurser, but no use for it. So instead, they deposit it in fat bodies in the abdomen and head.***


   Smiley RDY-B
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rdy-b
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« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2011, 10:41:54 PM »

.
That is real children fairytales. It is more poetry than science.

If you read wikipedia, it says it better.

Vitellogening exist in all animals which produce eggs. birds, fishes, nematodes....It it precursor of protein. Nothing more.


 You get a scientific research into you hands and you deliver fairytales.
That is big  waste.

.
********

Put into google "amino acids of vitellogenin" , you get some idea what the stuff is

.

 
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0050062
 
   tumbleweed  RDY-B
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jaseemtp
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« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2011, 06:52:57 PM »

Sooooo for us bee keepers in Texas when would be a good time to give them some pollen patties?
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rdy-b
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« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2011, 07:23:12 PM »

  best time to increase protein levels is right after the flow just before the brood nest makes its transition to winter bees-
 this will insure the new bees being reared for the dormant period will have the benefit of a strong immune system as well
 as a layer of fat in there bodies from which reserves are drawn during stress--sept-oct works in my environment-the more you feed the more brood will be reared-most off the shelf patties dont have enough cholesterol for extended brood rearing
they will give you about three rounds of brood---you dont have to go hole hog to get the benefit -two -three patties during this period will make for protein charged bees -and happy beekeepers-your bees will be well on there way during the spring build up period -will others are playing catch up--RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2011, 03:53:45 AM »

 best time to increase protein levels is right after the flow just before the brood nest makes its transition to winter bees-

i have kept bees on woodland pastures, where fire weed is only practical plant to bees. When its blooming ceases, larva feeding ceases too.

Another alternative - which I have followed- is to keep hive  in sites, where the are able to get pollen from red clover fields and from fresh cutted wood areas (gold rod). In July bees get the main store of pollen and in August ( Sept is here Autumn) they get something but not much.

To give patty in Autumn has leeded into catastrophe in my trials. Bees were not able to winter. If they get pollen from nature of from hive, they do not eate patty.

 But I have nursed bees 35 years withouth "high pollen knowledge" and bees did well. At least in my country 99% of beekeepers do not understand  protein or aminoacid issues and bees take care themselves.
Your knowlegde about vitellogenin may be totally wrong, but it does not affect on bees. Actually two days ago I read  what it is.

if you have not enough pastures to your bees, it will not save your bees if you feed them with patty and sugar. You cannot keep horse  neither if you have not field. So simple.

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rdy-b
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« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2011, 04:44:16 PM »

    Smiley finski you brag about your superior forage and then tell me about not being able to keep bees
 unless there is forage to support bees---this simply is not true--most keepers hobby or otherwise yearn
 for a better amount of forage for our bees--but we still keep bees and do our best to keep them healthy
 feeding protein sub is a big leg up when it comes to this task--you have kept your head in the sand about this and i understand your reluctance to open your mind- cool --but there are people in finland that keep bees for a living and
there families lively hood --your methods are not the way to achieve this--its not finskis way that dictates the success of these keepers- cheesy rather they move forward and become in tune with there bees needs--theres more to it than-how do you put it?-ah yes --BEES IN THERE CABINS FOR LONG WINTER SLEEP Wink -nutrion is so importat for all living things-my bees are my livstock i give them every advantage i can aford them--what your saying about horses is way off the mark also
 you at your keyboard are loseing perspective --I think its the delivery system for the nutrition that you are having trouble with-do you even comunicate with the keepers in finland or are you lone wolf against there advances- and dont try and make some atempt to cloud the isue with the whether report - tongue  RDY-B
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Finski
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« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2011, 06:03:29 PM »

    Smiley finski you brag about your superior forage and then tell me about not being able to keep bees
 unless there is forage to support bees---this simply is not true--most keepers hobby or otherwise yearn
 for a better amount of forage for our bees--but we still keep bees and do our best to keep them healthy
 feeding protein sub is a big leg up when it comes to this task--you have kept your head in the sand about this and i understand your reluctance to open your mind- cool --



i have feeded 20 years pollen in spring to bees..

Now i have feeded  8 years pollen+yeast+soya flour +vitamins.

If you get 150 kg honey from one hive in one month, let me know.

Rugby, you have nothing what you can teach me

head in sand   he  heh he.. 

don't teach duck to swim. 
 

we are very few in Finlad who feed patty to bees in Spring. I have been a Key Person to teach it.

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rdy-b
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« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2011, 06:52:12 PM »

   ** i have feeded 20 years pollen in spring to bees..**

 and you rely on pollen box in the fall-problem is that is when they start to shut down
 and consumption is slow-even the bee knows when to start consuming there reserves-

** Now i have feeded  8 years pollen+yeast+soya flour +vitamins.**

 yea nutrition how aboout that-- cheesy

 **we are very few in Finlad who feed patty to bees in Spring. I have been a Key Person to teach it.**
 yes and they tell me you fall down in snow- cheesy


**If you get 150 kg honey from one hive in one month, let me know.**
 Still braging about that one time harvest bounansa

  hee hee-very funy-you will be a better keeper when i get done with you -- cheesy--whether you admit it or not
poor duck swims backward--american beekeepers will feed you bread crumbs so you will fly some day-- Wink RDY-B
 
 
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rdy-b
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« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2011, 09:51:04 PM »

.
To rear winter bees they have special system. A strong hive has almost one box full of pollen when blooming ceases. After that Italian bees consume almost the whole that pollen store to make winter bees. A month later pollen store is gone.  Carniolan leaves more pollen over winter and with that it gets a fast spring build up.

I  use 3 brood box system. At the end of main yield the lowest box has pollen. Second and third have  brood.  When yield is over, I reduce the en trance. The queen descend to the  lowest  box and they start to consume pollen stores.

When I feed spring patty  to Italians, their build up is as fast as Carniolans'.




  special tutoring for finski------basics of pollen box--RDY-B

http://www.knology.net/~k4vb/ABJ%20Copies/NCB%20BC%20Sep%202004.pdf
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Finski
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« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2011, 10:15:46 PM »

[quote author=rdy-b link=topic=35404.msg295165#msg295165 date=1322967064

  special tutoring for finski------basics of pollen box--RDY-B

http://www.knology.net/~k4vb/ABJ%20Copies/NCB%20BC%20Sep%202004.pdf
[/quote]

You use Randy Oliver's writings and that "eternal student writer's" basics.
I read original researches when I study honey bee nutrition.

What do you have in your advanced basket?
I do not  mind read ordinary beekeeper's "common sense" stories. They are so many and nothing to learn.

When I read 50 years ago beekeeping books, they already knew that the more protein in wintering bees, the better winterers. And protein comes from pollen. 
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