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Author Topic: Queen won't move upstairs  (Read 2545 times)
Jonathan
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« on: July 24, 2005, 12:20:39 PM »

Greetings all.

I'm a newbee this year, and just recently registered for the forums. This has been a great source of advice.

I added a second deep super about 4 weeks ago. I opened the hive today, and although all the frames in the upper super have been worked with comb and honey (the innermost frames moreso than the outer ones), there is no sign that the queen has ventured upstairs to lay eggs. In the lower super, the queen has been laying eggs in even the outermost frames. There is very little honey downstairs now.

Is this a bad situation? If so, how do I coax the queen upstairs?

Also, I have yet to locate my queen. Any advice as to how I can identify her?

Thanks in advance for your comments.
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thegolfpsycho
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2005, 01:10:48 PM »

If she's filling the bottom box wall to wall with brood, I certainly wouldn't worry about her moving up.  She'll do it if she needs to.  As far as identifying her, she's probably going to be within a frame or two of where you find the eggs.  She'll be the gal with the long legs and even longer abdomen.  Once you see her, she will be much easier to identify the next time.  I find that if I look at the whole frame, not focus so much on a particular area, she is much easier to spot.  Also, the bees can help tip you off.  Frequently she is being attended to, and encircled by those attendants.
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banjojohn
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2005, 07:27:17 PM »

I had the same trouble and I tried putting the new one on the bottom and putting a couple frames of  brood from the center down there, the hives all had the new frames full of brood within 10 days. I had tried these on top for a week and none came up.
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Finsky
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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2005, 09:46:59 PM »

Your hive act in best manner: brood down and honey upp.

You need not see queen every time. It is enough that you have larvas and eggs in the hive. You just disturb hive if you need see the queen and you have not other purpose for that.
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AdmiralD
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2005, 11:15:27 PM »

Well, I have a similar problem, but in reverse order-

I have the polystryreen  colony set up like this.

cap
inner cover
deep
super
deep [brood]
deep [brood]
screen bottom board


The queen has moved up into the super and upper deep boxes and laid some,  but not many, eggs. It is some what disconcerting to me that she would do that.  

My hives are polystrene, and I do see some bearding out side the hive during the day and earling evening. In case you are wondering, there is still plenty of room in the lover brood boxes for eggs to be laid. And she has the majority of her eggs laid down there.  The pattern of egg laying is circular with honey stores on the outside of the circle of the rectanglar frame. But....

In the brood boxes, some frames one one side  have the regular pattern, and the other side of the frame is full of honey...and it seems to not be consistant... And I found a couple of out side frames not being used and not even drawn out. I have put those in the center of the brood boxes to  [ahem] draw it...to thier attention to get busy and work on those frames.
I was under the impression that if the super was full of honey, she would not move beyond it to lay eggs, [which is what I want]....

What do I do?

Can I use some "bee go" and force all the bees down beyond the super and have them fill out the rest of the brood boxes? My thoughts on that is that it would force the queen beyond the super and into the brood boxes and get the bees to relook at the brood frames...Does it work? I don't know...Whatcha think?
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Joseph Clemens
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2005, 11:42:33 PM »

Uhm. In my 40+ years of keeping honeybees, I've never even thought to be so demanding of my bees. It may be because I had rarely that much interest in honey production. I generally was pleased if they were regularly foraging when there was forage available (so I could watch them come and go) and that during spring, summer, and fall their would be brood available to observe.

I expect if you really have such a need for the bees to do exactly as you desire them to do, then you are probably going to be disappointed from time to time.
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Joseph Clemens
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Finsky
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« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2005, 01:13:27 AM »

Quote from: AdmiralD


The queen has moved up into the super and upper deep boxes and laid some,  but not many, eggs. It is some what disconcerting to me that she would do that.  

My hives are polystrene, and I do see some bearding out side the hive during the day and earling evening. In case you are wondering, there is still plenty of room in the lover brood boxes for eggs to be laid.


You use quite a little hive. 2 deeps are not enough to queen lay eggs.

I have usually

3 brood deeps
4-5 supers or honey boxes

Middle entrances open in every two boxed and in heavy honey flow all open.
Closed bottom.

I should move upper brood frame down. Otherwise you have honey and brood mixed.

If you have hot weather there, they do bear outside.

I have polystyre deeps and supers are wood. Wooden are 40 year old and polystyrene since 1987.

I use 3 brood deeps. Queens have no need to lay eggd to uppstairs. The lowest is usually full of pollen.  

The fourth deep is needed when I pick dark frames from brood area and take them off from usage. First queen lay them full of eggs. Bees consume pollen from combs. Brood emerges and bees fill combs with honey. Frames are empty to circulate.

See pictures http://bees.freesuperhost.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1121627860.

I moved hives to better pastures 2 weeks ago from rape to fireweed. In second pic 7-box hive was splitted and liftet on carry. In desination lifting back wise.
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Finsky
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« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2005, 01:40:20 AM »

Quote from: AdmiralD


In the brood boxes, some ..... And I found a couple of out side frames not being used and not even drawn out. I have put those in the center of the brood boxes to  [ahem] draw it...to thier attention to get busy and work on those frames.
I was under the impression that if the super was full of honey, she would not move beyond it to lay eggs, [which is what I want]....

What do I do?

?


PERHAPS

* When you have screened bottom it may be hat the lowest deep is too cold for brood and that is why they do not use foundation.
* the rest hive is too tigt. Do you have extra room for new honey?

* bees use the lowest empty combs fo honey before it is rippen. Then they move it uppwards.

I think that you have too few room for brood and honey. Check you ventilation.

First deep for extra space for pollen, nectar and field bees.

2-3 th deeps for brood.

3-4 supers for honey. If you have one capped box you need at least 2 super for new honey.

If the uppermost box is empty of bees, you have too much room. So take capped honey away and extract it.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2005, 10:01:47 AM »

Some of you are worried that the queen won't move up and lay when she's laying fine where she is.  Some of you are worried because the queen DID move up and lay when you wanted her to stay laying where she was.  Why don't you be glad you have a good queen who wants to lay and has room to lay and be happy?  The bees have never considered our desires when making decisions and my guess is they never will.
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Michael Bush
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AdmiralD
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2005, 01:59:53 PM »

Micheal Bush has said-
.
Quote
Some of you are worried that the queen won't move up and lay when she's laying fine where she is.    


And Joseph  has said-
Quote
In my 40+ years of keeping honeybees, I've never even thought to be so demanding of my bees.


Um, are you guys trying to tell me that you were NEVER that interested in tweaking your bees just so you could  1] make your harvesting easier 2] get more honey out of the hives ? So, allow me the retorical qustion, why did some of you guys switch from 10 frames to 8 frame hives?  If you tell me that it was easier on your back, or that you got more honey from the frames, I rest my case and respectfully ask that you don't give up on us new beekeepers who are asking "stupid" or " demanding" questions...Smiley

Admitedly, I am prolly being a anal retentive person over the bees, but can you blame me for  tapping  into that vast store of internet experience that is available at the touch of a key stroke?? Smiley

Bsides, I am sure that if I found a way to get the bees to place thier honey in a pre-cleaned, labeled honey jar, without any wax or bee parts in the honey, you guys would be beating a path to my door asking me how it is done... Cheesy  And I promise to share that information if I ever find out.  Cheesy
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bassman1977
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2005, 02:13:28 PM »

I'd just be happy if you could tell me a sure fire way to keep them from swarming.  BAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2005, 02:34:01 PM »

>Um, are you guys trying to tell me that you were NEVER that interested in tweaking your bees just so you could 1] make your harvesting easier 2] get more honey out of the hives ?

Certainly.  but I could care less where the queen likes to be or where the bees want to have their brood nest, as long as they are prospering and making honey.  Smiley  I also don't care if they draw comb, since they will if they need it or if they cut back on brood rearing in a dearth (which is wise of them) etc.  I just want to make sure they can defend their hive, have enough to eat and a good queen to keep things going.

> So, allow me the retorical qustion, why did some of you guys switch from 10 frames to 8 frame hives? If you tell me that it was easier on your back

Precisely.  To save my back.  Absolutely no other reason.

> or that you got more honey from the frames

Not a bit.

> I rest my case

What case?  Going to eight frame hives has nothing to do with my expectations of the bees and everthing to do with my expecations for myself.

> and respectfully ask that you don't give up on us new beekeepers

I certainly have not given up.

> who are asking "stupid" or " demanding" questions...

I thought the questions were NIETHER stupid NOR demanding.  I was just pointing out that you are not trusting the bees.  The bees don't care what you want and you seem to expect a lot of cooperation from them.  I've never known them to coorperate.  Smiley  Bees will be bees.

>Admitedly, I am prolly being a anal retentive person over the bees, but can you blame me for tapping into that vast store of internet experience that is available at the touch of a key stroke??  

Not at all.  I just think y'all need to learn to trust the bees.

>Bsides, I am sure that if I found a way to get the bees to place thier honey in a pre-cleaned, labeled honey jar, without any wax or bee parts in the honey, you guys would be beating a path to my door asking me how it is done...

Absolutely.

>  And I promise to share that information if I ever find out.

You do that.

Smiley
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Michael Bush
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My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Jerrymac
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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2005, 04:27:24 PM »

Quote from: AdmiralD

Bsides, I am sure that if I found a way to get the bees to place thier honey in a pre-cleaned, labeled honey jar, without any wax or bee parts in the honey, you guys would be beating a path to my door asking me how it is done... Cheesy  And I promise to share that information if I ever find out.  Cheesy


Are you saying your bees don't do that  shocked
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jefftck
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2005, 09:48:43 PM »

Quote from: Jerrymac
Quote from: AdmiralD

Bsides, I am sure that if I found a way to get the bees to place thier honey in a pre-cleaned, labeled honey jar, without any wax or bee parts in the honey, you guys would be beating a path to my door asking me how it is done... Cheesy  And I promise to share that information if I ever find out.  Cheesy


Are you saying your bees don't do that  shocked



 cheesy  cheesy I'm wiping tears from my eyes cheesy
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