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Author Topic: I want the NEXT President to PROMISE "ONLINE PRESIDENTIAL VOTING" by 2016  (Read 4663 times)
Scadsobees
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« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2011, 10:40:31 AM »

Forget voting, why not go with weekly online polls?  Then they'd know INSTANTLY when they are doing something the people don't like!  Now THAT would be democracy!!

If we're talking about access and and freedom to vote?  Everybody can now vote, even if some bugs in the system make it somewhat more difficult for some to vote.

Go computerized and I can guarantee more problems, lost votes, servers down during critical times denying people vote, etc.  I'm a programmer...I know what kind of stuff can go wrong (what kind of stuff I've caused to go wrong Smiley ).

This isn't American Idol.  We NEED some level of investment in order to get an informed vote.  Going online will allow very little investment.
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« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2011, 11:01:28 AM »

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/the-florida-recount-of-2000/

Quote
No more Florida hanging chads and judges deciding elections.


this is the one i like.  it just points to the uninformed wanting to make decisions.  1st, the court didn't decide the election.  they upheld the state law....as they were supposed to do.

second, Gore would not have won anyway and lets thank the powers above that we didn't get that nut case a president!

in oregon, we have vote by mail for all elections.  the voters info pamphlet comes in the mail and so do the ballots.  all you have to do is fill it out and stick it back in the mail.  you have two or three weeks to do it.  guess what?  people still don't vote and they are no more informed than than they ever were.  the difference?  you have no idea who actually voted.  as long as the security envelope is signed by the registered voter, anyone could have filled out the ballot. 

i am rethinking the democracy thing though.  there are more conservatives than liberals and they tend to be more involved.  institute real democracy and we can take over the country forever!  no welfare, no extended unemployment, no food stamps, no SSI "disability".....yup, maybe it's a good idea!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2011, 01:06:08 PM »

I’m in favor of Democracy, glad to see others coming around.  If the PEOPLE had the choice to vote on these things and the majority voted to get rid of them and elect Dubya to rule forever, I wouldn’t have a problem with that.  What I have a problem with is our elected people getting to Washington and then putting party politics over the people’s business. 

FYI….Year 2000
Popular vote for Gore = 50,999,897
Popular vote for Bush = 50,456,002

I wonder what our conservative friends would say if we made it as cumbersome to go to church every Sunday as we make it to vote?  Make people wait for 3 hours in the cold and snow just to get in?  Would making it harder to worship make it better?

Quote
Go computerized and I can guarantee more problems, lost votes, servers down during critical times denying people vote, etc.  I'm a programmer...I know what kind of stuff can go wrong

How many times in your life has your credit card been stolen buying things online?  As for servers going down, you solve that with redundancy and longer voting windows.  How many times have you found the Amazon server down when you wanted to buy something? 
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« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2011, 01:17:02 PM »

How many of you file your taxes electronically?  If online filing of taxes is safe enough for you, surely online voting is too!  

Sorry distractors, but you need to dream up better reasons for shooting down this GREAT idea.
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kathyp
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« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2011, 01:26:22 PM »

i don't have to worry that someone will want to pay my taxes for me!!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2011, 02:15:03 PM »

 >wonder what our conservative friends would say if we made it as cumbersome to go to church every Sunday as we make it to vote?  Make people wait for 3 hours in the cold and snow just to get in?  Would making it harder to worship make it better?

It would prolly prove who had a real interest in worshiping God.

And I've seen people in the stands watching football games in worst conditions then you are talking about. And standing in lines for hours to get into a store on black Friday.

And believe it or not they look like they were enjoying themselves.
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« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2011, 03:07:56 PM »

How many of you file your taxes electronically?  If online filing of taxes is safe enough for you, surely online voting is too!  

So when I vote online, I will get a recept showing when and for whom I voted, plus if and when it was tallied, and a guarantee that the information will not fall into the wrong hands?

Sounds good.

BTW, I have never voted by mail...  how can you be certain it was received and counted?
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« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2011, 04:29:00 PM »

Ken, do you really think that BECAUSE you vote online you open the door for people to BUY YOUR VOTE (any more than if you did it in person)Huh I don't get that one.

Kathy, Since there is no test needed to vote, then no one voting now is statistically "wiser" at voting than anyone who chose a computer to cast a vote - I'd even go to say that someone able to use a computer (period) may better reflect the population than our sadly aging population who has party voted their entire life, who religiously marches into the polls to pull the A or B column buttons.

Not to forget if it came down to voters who had to know their local, state and Federal representative's names in order to be able to cast votes - the polls would be empty, again a moot issue.

I don't buy any of these as plausible reasoning against online voting.

I only see one issue that is valid: having the most citizens interested enough in voting to cast their ballots - it isn't complicated, it is common sense.

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« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2011, 04:41:57 PM »

I really can see the criminal element opening up something similar to a cybercafe and paying people to come in and cast their ballot for the boughten politician of the day.Can you say electoral speak easy. If you don't think that element is out there waiting to exploit something like that,you may need to rethink the scenario.
Many of these people would be voting from phone apps,you know to be sure they are not excluded. I can see a large vote fraud being perpetrated this way.   I am sure even in my rural area there would be people eager to use my cyber ID to cast my vote. Heck they might even offer a couple bucks here if a large contract were in the cards.
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« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2011, 04:47:32 PM »

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Kathy, Since there is no test needed to vote, then no one voting now is statistically "wiser" at voting than anyone who chose a computer to cast a vote

if you have to make the effort to vote, you tend to be more informed and involved.  it's not about being wiser.  it's about being engaged. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2011, 07:40:26 PM »

"Bee Nuts,
Do you really think online voting would change the political landscape?"

No, to truly change the landscape of politics you need to vote "Bee-Nuts" for President!
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« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2011, 01:06:36 PM »

"Bee Nuts,
Do you really think online voting would change the political landscape?"

No, to truly change the landscape of politics you need to vote "Bee-Nuts" for President!


 grin grin
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« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2011, 03:54:30 PM »

I really can see the criminal element opening up something similar to a cybercafe and paying people to come in and cast their ballot for the boughten politician of the day.Can you say electoral speak easy. If you don't think that element is out there waiting to exploit something like that,you may need to rethink the scenario.
Many of these people would be voting from phone apps,you know to be sure they are not excluded. I can see a large vote fraud being perpetrated this way.   I am sure even in my rural area there would be people eager to use my cyber ID to cast my vote. Heck they might even offer a couple bucks here if a large contract were in the cards.


How is this any different from the Democrats pulling buses up to poor neighborhoods, shelters, homeless on park-benches. nursing homes, graveyards and,the concept of food bank voting (or vote for a square meal) is as old as politics. If you shoot a deer with a musket or an AK-47, you still shot a deer with a gun. OF COURSE people and parties will be motivated to find new and exciting ways to capture votes, and a cup of coffee for an Obama vote is likely the going rate anyway. But all that would average out, different pond, same fish is all.

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« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2011, 04:03:27 PM »

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But all that would average out, different pond, same fish is all.

don't know about that.  if that were true, JFK would never have made it.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2011, 05:37:19 PM »

the reason 60+ % of the people don't vote is because they are lazy and uninvolved.  it's not because they don't have access.  go pick 10 friends.  ask them who their congressmen are, any judgeships that you guys vote for, or even your local elected officials.  i bet at least 60% of your own friends don't know who has been elected.

what you both are saying is that you want to make it easier for lazy and uninformed people to vote.  most of of the 47% don't vote unless there is a threat to their handouts.  you want to make it easier for them to vote?....because you know they all have computers and smart phones even if they claim they can't feed themselves. 

sure...lets encourage the lazy, uninformed, and welfare class to have a greater say in how things are done.  i'm pretty sure that it will work out well for all of us because you know they'll vote for the good of the country.

Okay since it has been thrown out there
Congressman Morgan Griffith
Board of Supervisors John Absher
School Board Ralph Davis
Sheriff Brian Hieatt
House of Delegates Will Moorefield
State Senate Phillip Pucket

Kathy I can go on but I figure I'm in the minority on this one!
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« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2011, 06:58:03 AM »

I'll vote for you bee-nuts!

If we don't have a Democracy in America why are we always trying to impose it on other countries?  That position is at the core of the JBS faithful and just doesn't jive w/ reality.  We have a "Republic" w/ democratic representation;  Better?

How about instead of computer voting, a simple phone call?  More people have phones, more than have computers.  Just dial the number of 'your' favorite Candidate, enter your ssn, done.

There's actually a site called americanselect.org for those who are interested in this topic 'for real' check it out.

Lots of opinions, too much 'judgemental' ridicule rolleyes.

thomas
« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 07:11:02 AM by T Beek » Logged

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« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2011, 09:28:41 AM »

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If we don't have a Democracy in America why are we always try to impose it on other countries?  That position is at the core of the JBS faithful and just doesn't jive w/ reality.
[

democracy is one man, one vote.  it is what many countries, when they look for "freedom" attempt to institute.  what i leads to is repression of all minority opinions.  we are probably going to see examples of this in the "Arab Spring" countries. 

we have a representative republic.  the founders were particularly interested in each state functioning independently, with representation to the federal government.  this gave the states latitude to develop in the best interest of their area and their people, with the federal government taking care of big things like treaty, trade, and defense. it gave people choices about the kind of government with witch they wanted to live, within certain guarantees of the Constitution.

JBS?  john birtch society?  are they still around?  i am not a fan of "spreading freedom", but i do think it should be supported.

 a few years ago, the Iranian students looked like they were ready to take on their government.  in that case, it would have taken little effort to support them and no harm could have been done no matter how it turned out.

instead, we support the overthrow of governments that are not harming us, are, in fact, more or less friendly, and in the end, help throw a whole region into chaos.....and probably into what the Muslim Brotherhood has always wanted for the area....Islamist governments with a hatred for all things not Islam.....and the weapons to prove it.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 09:45:30 AM by kathyp » Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2011, 09:44:13 PM »

>Meanwhile we know FRAUD at the poling places exist nearly everywhere, with checks and balance left at local levels, if at all. A Federal Voting System using high secure passwording which locks out any repeat attempts at voting would STOP the "Vote as often as you can" syndrome we read about.

The only reason we have reasonably honest elections is BECAUSE things happen at a local level.  Any country where the voting is handled at a federal level is totally corrupt.  As Stalin said, it's not the people who vote who decide the election, but the people who count the votes.  When the people who count the votes are the people in power, they will always win.  We have a fairly uncorrupted system BECAUSE every local election board counts those votes and reports them to the news media and the state.  If the numbers the state reports are different than the numbers the local board reported to the news media, then something is wrong.  I have no doubt a few dead people vote for both sides in every election.  But it probably all evens out. 

If the federal government runs the election then you can count on whoever is in power at the time remaining in power unless and until there is a violent revolution to overthrow them.  How would you hold the federal government accountable for a bad election?  How would you prove it?  There would be no physical ballots to count.  No reconciliation with the rolls, the number of ballots sent out and the number returned voted, unvoted and discarded.  There would be no audit trail to follow to prove any corruption, that couldn't have been faked.  One electron pretty much looks like the next...


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« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2011, 11:39:43 PM »

all really great points.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2011, 07:41:10 AM »

>Meanwhile we know FRAUD at the poling places exist nearly everywhere, with checks and balance left at local levels, if at all. A Federal Voting System using high secure passwording which locks out any repeat attempts at voting would STOP the "Vote as often as you can" syndrome we read about.

The only reason we have reasonably honest elections is BECAUSE things happen at a local level.  Any country where the voting is handled at a federal level is totally corrupt.  As Stalin said, it's not the people who vote who decide the election, but the people who count the votes.  When the people who count the votes are the people in power, they will always win.  We have a fairly uncorrupted system BECAUSE every local election board counts those votes and reports them to the news media and the state.  If the numbers the state reports are different than the numbers the local board reported to the news media, then something is wrong.  I have no doubt a few dead people vote for both sides in every election.  But it probably all evens out.  


Sorry but I can't agree w/ that, there hasn't been an evening out for a very long time grin.

Short term memory warning ahead:  Florida 2000, a corrupt State system, further corrupted by a corupted federal court system (and no one goes to jail?).  When both State and Fed voting systems are corrupt, what's the solution then...................?  

None of us know who is really doing the counting, or should I say deciding, especially when less than half (its about 20% in my County) bother to vote  in 'local' elections.  Some have a pretty good idea though.

Is JBS still around?  Are you kidding?  They are alive and thriving and currently headquartered in Wisconsin, been around these folks all my life, the two sides of Wisconsin politics, progressive populists and well disguised fascists.  JBS positions and opinions permeate the airwaves every day, you can't escape their message, although JBS doesn't necessarily lay claim to it (they're too smart for that).

MB said; If the federal government runs the election then you can count on whoever is in power at the time remaining in power unless and until there is a violent revolution to overthrow them.  How would you hold the federal government accountable for a bad election?  How would you prove it?  There would be no physical ballots to count.  No reconciliation with the rolls, the number of ballots sent out and the number returned voted, unvoted and discarded.  There would be no audit trail to follow to prove any corruption, that couldn't have been faked.  One electron pretty much looks like the next...

Many already don't have a way to 'physically' count votes.  Voting with the machines they've persuaded most areas to adopt is a big issue w/ keeping track of votes and then allowing ONE company to dominate the landscape also allows corruption to seep in.  Right now we have corporate America running elections, I'd rather have more involvement from the feds in this capacity at least, certainly more enforcement.  Of course any system success depends on the willingness to put lawbreakers in jail, still waiting rolleyes

thomas

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