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Author Topic: I want the NEXT President to PROMISE "ONLINE PRESIDENTIAL VOTING" by 2016  (Read 3959 times)
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« on: November 25, 2011, 02:15:44 AM »

There isn't any excuse any longer for NOT allowing ONLINE VOTING as an OPTION to voting at the polls. We intrust billions and maybe trillions of dollars in banking online every day using accepted security measures - most of us now do all of our banking online, whether bill paying, moving funds, electronic transfer of our paycheck and it is accepted, insured and extremely safe and with few if any exceptions, unbreakable.

Meanwhile we know FRAUD at the poling places exist nearly everywhere, with checks and balance left at local levels, if at all. A Federal Voting System using high secure passwording which locks out any repeat attempts at voting would STOP the "Vote as often as you can" syndrome we read about.

Imagine, once you go through the registration process, where you supply enough information for super computers to varify it is you (and yes that includes checking SSNs to see what dead people may be trying to vote) can work in conjuction with established voting districts where connected machines used prior or after the online booth would cancel out a second attempt.

I don't believe that a fool proof (or at least a FAR SUPERIOR SYSTEM) is not possible by allowing people to vote from home - NOT TO FORGET that if all you need to do is sign into a (eg.) www.generalelectionvote.gov - put in your username and password, vote and NEVER get out of your PJs or pt down your coffee WOULD greatly increase the number of voters who cast their votes in any election.

I want this Congress out, toss them all in a bus and ship them home for good and stat fresh - new blood then would have to wear NASCAR LIKE JACKETS showing lobbyists in large print with logos according to how much they contribute, so we can see who is buying which politician. And if the new Congress don't like that, well... let someone who is willing to wear their sponsors on teir backs run - I know we'll have no problem filling those seats. We will still likely have have crooks, but at least we know who is filling their pockets.

But back to part ONE: Online Voting, safe and secure by 2016. If you can just pri someone away from Metal of Honor or World of Warcraft for 5 minutes, we will have another 30 million votes cast. It is TIME, enough of the Electoral College (yeah I feel sorry for Delaware and Rhode Island) but I don't know about you, but I'm tired of Florida picking the President - and even the it is still battled. Let's get real data, on mchines designed to accurately calculate numbers at the polls and home computers logging into very secure servers and combined, all duplicates and fraudulant votes removed and see what America really votes like.

I trust all my saving, investments and paychecks to secure online banking, I have equal faith these same computers could tally my vote properly for me and every other American - and do it by 2016.
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« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2011, 06:51:30 AM »

The only problem with that is there is an electronic trail that says who you voted for.The privacy of the vote would soon disappear and could be used for voter intimidation. Much the way unions want to dispense of the secret ballot for union representation so they can single out those that vote against unionization,voters could be singled out and bullied for voting against a certain party.
I do not think it is too much trouble to show up at a polling place once every four years,which is all the more often some people do.
I think we need to standardize the balloting procedure across the country and improve on what we have.
 Doing internet voting would require every one to have access to a computer. Which everyone realistically has,but I can already see a need to fund computers for those that do not.And funding to be pay for the broadband service to ensure  a speedy vote.
 We need competent people running the polling places,playing by the rules.I personally would trust my local people long before I would want to trust the Feds with another one of my Constitutional privileges.The Constitution was created to regulate the size and powers of the government and I am not about to completely hand over the only way we the citizens have of limiting said government.The polling place.

P.S This commentary does not necessarily reflect the views of the owners or management. grin grin


Always saw that on TV and wondered if I could ever use it!
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« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2011, 09:54:15 AM »

yeah, not a fan of the idea.  sorry.  we have gone to vote by mail here, and all it's done is make it easier for the idiots to vote and made it easier for others to vote for the idiots.

voting is not just ticking a box.  it's a commitment to your civic duty and your rights.  get off your backside (the collective you), SHOW SOME ID, and vote.

you know i love tech and my gadgets, but on this i have to disagree with you.  sorry  Cry
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2011, 12:53:58 PM »

So Objection wise, let's deal with those.

The idea of everyone having a computer (basically) really doesn't come into play -  voting districts could easily have PCs set up for the same purpose and you'd get in and out very fast. But using the new square bar code symbols which contain tons of encoded (albeit not very private when technology is sided to the mix) info, but these personalized codes could be added to a FEDERAL ID CARD (which whether you are for or against, is coming soon) a swipe or scan of the Fed-ID at any polling place and literally anywhere equipped such as libraries, supermarkets, pharmacies, anywhere with a scanning device is a voting hotspot.

Imagine, voting from your I-Phone, lord knows the YOUTH VOTE would show up in record numbers.

Home is the easiest, log into a Fed site, enter username and password and you vote - in all cases, once your data is used, it is locked out from further voting.

Availability is the key. Put voting kiosks everywhere and everyone will vote (if they have any intention to vote period) and who knows, some outlets can use it as a patriotic gesture where your name is added into a hat to win a free cup of coffee to a new car - incentive voting with prizes attached makes it rewarding and gambling, 2 things people love to do WAY MORE than voting. Of course, the fact that you VOTED is what inspires businesses to offer gifts, lottos, discounts on election day, ect., not WHO you voted for - no one should ever have THAT knowledge except you. Weeding out anyone trying to fix the polls by saying you GREATLY increase your chances of winning a car by voting for candidate B would surely be rooted out quickly. And I have NO DOUBT WHAT SO EVER that it all can be done on an APP for any phone, so whether you are in your car VOTING rather than texting (ugh) or in line hoping to will a free doughnut to go with your coffee, I believe this could easily inspire at least 30% more voter turn out and THAT number being VERY Conservative.

As a check and balance, any vote should generate a email and subsequent written letter to the voter. This is the only problem I see really - people don't know who they vote for 2 seconds after casting a vote, especially propositions - people will argue that their confirmation shows errors, so SINCE we don't get confirmations now, why should be then - except to state "THANK YOU FOR VOTING" which should be enough.

Just another way to vote, a faster, slicker, funner and more exciting way to get people to vote - I see a lot more good than harm.

I know it can be done, again if trillions of dollars in monetary funds can be transacted by hundreds of millions of people daily, then something as simple as voting is not even breaking a sweat.

The IDEA surely is NOT to replace traditional voting, but to add to the options and make it more "fun" for the voter, do that and they will vote.
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« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2011, 02:39:02 PM »

John your digging in deeper not convincing us that this plan would be the new wave of the future.  I personally don't even trust our new fancy high fangled electronic voting machines.  Now you assume that I would trust my cell phone, home computer, or a termanal at a box store.  Not to mention the idea of giving incentives to vote.  My goodness I'm sure that would be illegal in all 50 of the 57 states Obama says are here in America.  As for the federal ID card you want to use to vote with illegal under the constitution voting is an action taken up by the state.  Also bank security isn't that grand anyways have so many cases of fraud everyday with electronic banking it's mind boggling.  How blessed hard is it to go to a polling place produce your voter registration card or state ID and vote?  Not to mention you have absentee voting if you can't make it to the polls on election day.  Voting is a right some people choose to exercise some do not.  On a final note do you really want someone who is too sorry to go to the polls or get an absentee ballot voting at Walmart to sign up for a free TV while buying a 24 pack of natty light for supper? 
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2011, 03:24:50 PM »

I agree COMPLETELY agree with the BeeMaster.  

There is only one purpose for restricting the ability of people to vote; a subversion of democracy by the people in power.  Many think they have a better chance of keeping power if they can make it too cumbersome for the majority of people to vote.  

When voter turnout is 30 to 40% for mid term elections, we don’t have a democracy.
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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2011, 03:44:40 PM »

There is not a lack of places or lack of means to get to vote.If the Feds control the voting booths,they soon control the elections.
I don't think a legitimate argument can be made for most people not being able to get to the polling places. Look at the outrage  when people found out Apple  could track there movements and phone calls. Don't think this software could not be hacked to alter your vote or misdirect it all together.I do not have the  trust in the federal government many of you have.Nor will I ever.
Until we have a government that recognizes the limits placed on it by the Constitution,I will not let them control the only means of change we the people have.
The government able to care for you womb to tomb is also able to take all you have at it's discretion.The voting booth is the last line of defense for the voters.

Whos voting rights are being restricted? Felons,illegal aliens,lazy people?

I think the silent majority of this country have to rise and quit taking the kicks in the shins on a daily basis.
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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2011, 04:27:05 PM »

Quote
The IDEA surely is NOT to replace traditional voting, but to add to the options and make it more "fun" for the voter, do that and they will vote.

good lord.  i don't want people to vote because it's fun.  i want them to vote because they are educated on issues and care enough to vote.

Quote
There is only one purpose for restricting the ability of people to vote; a subversion of democracy by the people in power.  Many think they have a better chance of keeping power if they can make it too cumbersome for the majority of people to vote. 

When voter turnout is 30 to 40% for mid term elections, we don’t have a democracy.

bull.  there is no restriction on voting.  there is no effort to restrict voting other than to be sure that those who are voting actually have the right to vote.....and are still living. 

and we don't have a democracy.  we never had a democracy.  we were not intended to have a democracy.  democracy is the death of individual rights.
the reason we have low voter turnout is the same reason we have tons of people sitting around collecting from the tax payer.  they are lazy. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2011, 08:19:38 PM »

It took me hours and hours waiting in line in the hot Florida sun to vote against Bush in Nov 2004.  Unfortunately not everybody has my stamina, and Bush got 4 more years.  My brother passed out due to heat stroke waiting to vote.  You had to stand in line for about 3 hours just to vote.  An incredibly inefficient process Sad  Internet voting with a federal ID would remove this problem Smiley

Have you ever been to Florida?  Are you aware that the average age down there is about 92?  OK, I exaggerated on that one, but they’re old.  Trust me grin.  When you’re that old, standing in the Sun for 3 hours to vote can be deadly.  Internet voting with a federal ID would remove this problem. Smiley

I’ve moved numerous times, and there has ALWAYS been extra hoops and hurdles to jump through to be “allowed” to vote.  You can’t wait until the last minute, or last couple of weeks and still hope to vote.  Why is that when I’ve been an American citizen from day 1?  Internet voting with a federal ID would remove this problem.  Smiley

The other beef I have with the current system is forcing everyone to vote on the same day.  WHY is that so critical?  Somebody please explain that one to me huh  If we were allowed to vote over a period of a week or two, it would make it way more convenient for the voters.
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« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2011, 09:09:10 PM »

If somebody is so divested of their interest in the american country that they can't break away from their entertainment long enough dedicate an hour or two and get down to a voting booth, they probably shouldn't be voting. 

I agree all barriers to voting should be removed.  But I don't think it should be a completely pain free process.  We need to be invested our country and government, and spending 30 second on my iphone to cast my vote won't make me make sure I understand what is going on and make the best choice. I don't think this would happen if voting is too easy.  This is much bigger than american idol.

I don't think that online voting would change anything during offyear elections turnout.  If I can't be bothered to head down to vote, I probably won't bother going online and voting.

If lines are way too long, 3 hours or whatever upper limit is, yes, that should be addressed.  Mail in voting for those people who are home bound.  Problems in the current system should be rectified.  As to a single day versus a week - then they'd be tying up a lot of voting areas longer than can be done, and the volunteers would have problems.  But it would be nice to be longer.
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« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2011, 09:20:23 PM »

blue....we wouldn't want you at all inconvenienced when you go to vote.  it should be, like everything else, easy.  why the effort?  it is, indeed, sad.

but....look on the bright side.  no one shoots at you when you go to vote....yet....
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

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« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2011, 10:13:08 PM »

People don't mind waiting for lotto tickets when the payout is a few hundred million - how many more people do you think would play the lottery if they could buy the tickets online securely? I think a lot.

And Kathy, as far as FUN goes, far too many people see voting as objectionably as Jury Duty, and it is all the government asks of us - not to argue taxes here. What would it hurt if voting "were" more interesting or fun, as long as the voters understand what is at stake. Tripling the number of voters is moot if no one knows the issues they are voting for and standing for. Polls are accurate BECAUSE of random sampling, in theory.

I say, if you are taking a poll on the South-Side of Chicago on how well Obama is doing, you have built in a fudge factor (no pun intended - ugh) but if sampling is accurate, then whether 20 million of 150 million people vote, the gap between candidates will remain the same.

So, arguing that point, why even bother wanting more people to vote if nothing will change? If people are foolish enough to NOT try to change things, they deserve what we already have. But maybe, just maybe making it simpler for people to vote (and forget I said a Federal ID Card - you don't need that) my online banking services don't need it, neither would the polls, but:

With Online Voting, I can't imagine the need for absentee voting - you can just as easily vote online FASTER than you could ever fill-out an absentee form.

Make it seamless for students to vote while out of state at school - getting the youth vote finally in the poll numbers.

Adapt to 21st Century methods of involving people of age to do their public duty.

AND YES.... why not use your smartphone or any device with secure encryption as your portal to elect a President and any candidate in our land that will represent you.

Why not just revert to dipping our index finger into purple ink after casting a vote, but rather stand above the rest of the world and show that America can shine as an example, not always fall in line and do the same old thing for decades and centuries.

Just think, a decade after after initiating online voting, no one will ever think twice about it - it will be as common place as if it had always been that way. I just find it funny how many people fall under that old Total Quality Management Axiom of "people don't mind CHANGE... they mind BEING changed!" and it is true - if "we come up with it", it is okay - but if it is decided for us (even if it is better and even if it is just an option) it is fought against.

About Online voting as an option: It can be done... It is being done in many industries already, successfully... it will work for voting... and we will see it in our life time!

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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2011, 10:18:18 PM »

+1 everything the BeeMaster said.

Other advantages to on line voting:

We gain a HUGE amount of productivity by not making 100 million people wait in line.
We save a huge amount of gasoline by not making people drive to the polls.
Less CO2 pumped into the atmosphere.
We circumvent bad weather.  Snow, Ice, Heat, etc.
Votes can be tallied MUCH faster since they’re in a computer.
More valid accounting of the votes.
No more Florida hanging chads and judges deciding elections.
Less expensive voting machines to buy.  Reduces our deficit.
Allows citizens easier access to the political process at Work, Home, Libraries, etc.
Less disfranchisement of citizens who might have to work 2 jobs or have other conflicts (5kids).
Less influence from the media if everybody could start voting at the same time.
With encryption, more secure than any other system I can think of.


Our friends are really reaching for straws when they’re trying to claim this is not a GREAT idea.
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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2011, 10:27:10 PM »

Old saying... 

To err is human, to REALLY mess things up, takes a computer!
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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2011, 01:16:00 AM »

At first I thought bad idea, but when I think of it, hmm, you know I like the idea.  Why?

Well, I want all the crooked politics over with.  I want all the current ones shiped to china where they let the jobs go.  I want them to not be a separate class, like health insurance, vote their own raises, ect.

By putting voting online, maybe we could start getting more bills, more legislation, more people of the country friendly issues to vote on from our homes.  Maybe we could actually get some of these crooks voted out, maybe we could actually get some legislation passed that would help us.  If we were voting in this manner, it would be simple to see if THE PEOPLE approve or disapprove of a bill before it even hits the floor by real voter opinion polls.  People could get together and demand that a certain issue gets voted on.  Right now we only have media to tell us what the people think.  How about we get to open out state or federal voting site and when a bill is proposed we can not only click, no, but say why not.  Then in an instant our reps can see if they are moving in the right direction.  If we see that Mr. so and so still voted yes when 85 percent of us voted no in an opinion poll, we can vote the smuck out.  This site would also need a forum where WE THE PEOPLE  can start topics and open our own polls to VOICE OUR DANG OPINION AND LET THESE SMUCKS HEAR WHAT WE HAVE TO SAY!!!!!!  Like, you voted for what pal, a raise, where are the social security raises then, why are you getting a raise when we dont have a balanced budget, .............  Oh, I love the idea if it looks like this.

Do you see where I am going with this?
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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2011, 03:01:29 AM »

Do you see where I am going with this?
Yes, you want REAL democracy!  I'm with you 100%

+1 for Bee Nuts
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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2011, 08:35:45 AM »

We live in a republic.not a true democracy. By design it was too keep things from happening by knee jerk reaction. Who would police this system?
If the lines are long,you need more polling places.
Online votig opens the door to selling your votes to the highest bidder. Don't think this could not easily be done  by a programmer.
 The people in charge of this are the ones who have made it technically a crime to put false info on your facebook page such as when one of your children puts a location where they live to protect them from predators.
The largest block of voters you would pick up would most likely be the welfare crowd that does not have time to feed their children before school and depend on us to do it.
I'm sorry,but making it easy and fun for the large block,you know the 47 percent thriving off of the 53 percent,so they can keep the freebies coming is not a good idea.
Many of these people would be the same ones that think nothing of camping in the cold overnight on Black Friday to get the discount thats offered to them.

I live in a small township where there is one polling place.Turnout is 30 percent at best in off year elections most times.Access to the polling place is not an issue. Most just do not want to put forth the effort.An even larger crowd are not even registered to vote.
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« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2011, 08:59:24 AM »

Bee Nuts,
Do you really think online voting would change the political landscape? Only by making it easier on election day for people to punch in the name of a guy who was on TV just before  they hit the keyboard.
There are a large number of the criminal element who may also take the time to vote if it's made easier.
If our children were taught history so it is not repeated it would be a better proposal than online  voting.
Much of the population coming of age now,those born in 1994,know very little of the World Wars,Korea,Vietnam or even the first Gulf War.
Some good education on the Constitution and what it was written for would be a big plus.So would explaining that an educated vote is much more responsible than a knee jerk vote.

Is this the kind of voter that needs easier access?
http://youtu.be/P36x8rTb3jI
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« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2011, 10:01:33 AM »

the reason 60+ % of the people don't vote is because they are lazy and uninvolved.  it's not because they don't have access.  go pick 10 friends.  ask them who their congressmen are, any judgeships that you guys vote for, or even your local elected officials.  i bet at least 60% of your own friends don't know who has been elected.

what you both are saying is that you want to make it easier for lazy and uninformed people to vote.  most of of the 47% don't vote unless there is a threat to their handouts.  you want to make it easier for them to vote?....because you know they all have computers and smart phones even if they claim they can't feed themselves. 

sure...lets encourage the lazy, uninformed, and welfare class to have a greater say in how things are done.  i'm pretty sure that it will work out well for all of us because you know they'll vote for the good of the country.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2011, 10:20:40 AM »

Aww Kathy,
Lets start with easy ones
1  Vice President
2  Speaker of the House
3  Senate Majority Leader
4 Who casts the deciding vote in the Senate in the case of a tie vote?
5  Who is President of the Senate


Hint: two of the above have the same answer.

Bet they can answer more about a candidates marital problems and personal life than their ideologies.

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