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Author Topic: What's your take on All Mediums?  (Read 3185 times)
AllenF
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« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2011, 06:15:40 PM »

One thing to remember with all meds is that you need to keep your honey supers separate from your brood supers if you medicate your bees.   I don't think anyone has brought that point up yet.
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FRAMEshift
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« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2011, 07:13:11 PM »

One thing to remember with all meds is that you need to keep your honey supers separate from your brood supers if you medicate your bees.   I don't think anyone has brought that point up yet.

I don't think that works anyway.  If you treat your hive with chemicals, they will be in the honey.  So for me that would not be a reason to use different size frames.
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woodchopper
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« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2011, 06:00:03 AM »

1 - Deeps are the norm for brood. That means buyers and sellers are usually in deeps - and that means a compatibility issue somewhere.

2 - I do believe that bees are going to do a little better with that larger comb in the brood area - more honey/pollen and brood space per comb. Not a huge issue - but a consideration.

3 - I have 11 deep boxes piled up outside which I came upon easily through other beekeepers, and I see deeps more commonly than others. And that ties to cost. I can get a lot more bee space for my money. And money is tight.
1] I read in a recent ABJ or Bee Culture mediums have been in use since the 1860's. Quite a few beeks are now using all mediums and sellers have figured out if they want to keep their market share they must provide for their customers who use all mediums. I'm going back to buying packages so what I decide to use for equipment is a non issue.
 2] I've seen no difference between 2 deeps or 3 mediums in 10 frame equipment. Initially the cost for mediums is slightly higher but that is only for the first year. Because I buy in bulk my supers, frames, and foundation becomes cheaper per unit and my process of rotating out old comb becomes cheaper because I typically use frames from my honey supers to replace old ones in my brood chambers.. As my apiary grows and my back gets older the $20-$26 more I spend on each hive gets paid back in the sale of 2-3 bottles of honey. If you choose to use all mediums you'll never look back.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2011, 07:19:49 AM »

>If you treat your hive with chemicals, they will be in the honey.

Not as long as you only put it in the no peeing section of the pool. Wink

Seriously, you are right.  Bees move honey around all the time.  If it's in the hive it will get in the honey.
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Michael Bush
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jaseemtp
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« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2011, 01:48:33 PM »

Ok, this is a from a first year beek.  I am in all 8 frame mediums and it has worked out fantastic for me.  As noted it can be a challenge when purchasing nucs, but just use two boxes and ur good to go.  My reasons for going with mediums is the weight which as some point will matter, and if you already have back troubles mediums make more sense.  Having all the same size equipment offers alot of versality to me that was very appealing.
I think we worry to much about what the bees want in a hive.  I have seen them in old tires, water meter boxes, under mobil homes, in an old ice chest and the list goes on.
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ScoobyDoBee
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« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2011, 10:19:30 PM »

In my 2 hives, bottom deep and the rest are mediums - 8fr. Bought the deeps because of the nucs coming in. Didn't have anyone to suggest using 2 mediums; a simple solve! Will work the deeps out this spring. I struggle as it is with a full 8fr med. Cant even imagine a 10 frame med, much less a deep. 99% of the folks use deeps around here, mostly because "that's the way it's done." They get real quiet when I talk about all 8s. Smiley
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rail
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« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2011, 01:40:46 PM »

1: Who is "nadiring" with all mediums?

2: If not, how do you manage the comb in the brood nest; do you rotate out old comb and how often?

3: Does anyone use 7 5/8" supers instead of 6 5/8"?

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Sirach
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« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2011, 02:49:11 PM »

If you build your own boxes from dimension lumber, 6 5/8  (out of a nominal 8") is far less waste than 9 5/8 (out of a nominal 12").  Furthermore 8 inch lumber can be scrapped out or purchased on loss leader sale far more frequently than premium 12 inch boards.

That said, I have both deeps and mediums.  My biggest frustration with 8 frame equipment is the extra 1/4 inch in box width, and this leaves the new 8 frame equipment sloppy and likely to get bur comb all over the sides or double comb if you space the frames in brood boxes.

In a 10 frame box - interior dimension is 14 3/4 or 1 inch over 10 x 1 3/8
In a 8 frame box of "standard size" - interior dimension is 12 1/4 or 1 1/4 inch over 8 x 1 3/8.

The extra 1/4 in design dimension has never been explained to my satisfaction.  I have shaved a frame edge and added a 9th frame to early brood boxes.

That extra 1/4 inch does cause spacing issues.  Especially since the 1 inch in 10 frame boxes is distributed over 11 spacings and in 8 frame the 1 1/4 only over 9.
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ScoobyDoBee
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« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2011, 09:51:50 AM »

In a 10 frame box - interior dimension is 14 3/4 or 1 inch over 10 x 1 3/8. In a 8 frame box of "standard size" - interior dimension is 12 1/4 or 1 1/4 inch over 8 x 1 3/8....Especially since the 1 inch in 10 frame boxes is distributed over 11 spacings and in 8 frame the 1 1/4 only over 9.
JW, I have contemplated shaving frames to add a 9th frame.  Using your measurements, I just need to shave off 1/8 in total if I wanted all 9 frames to fit very snuggly in the box...is that math correct?  (9x1.375=12.375 less id of box at 12.25=.125?). And then, I really wouldn't want them to be that snug would I - so just shave a smidge extra off here n there? Or does it matter how close the top bar is to the sides? I understand "bee space" but I have never really been sure from where that was measured. (I have no carpentry experience nor am I good at math! Shocked)
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2011, 10:16:18 AM »

Take 1/16" off each side of the end bars.
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Michael Bush
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ScoobyDoBee
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« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2011, 10:48:18 AM »

Oh, I love simplicity! Thanks Michael.
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VolunteerK9
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« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2011, 12:42:25 PM »

But if we are cramming 9 frames into a 8 frame box why don't we just stay at 10? Frame inspections can be a little hairy at times with 10 in a 10, in particular if you are trying to save queen cells-with 9 in an 8 it would be almost impossible I would think.
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Vance G
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« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2011, 01:38:43 PM »

Mediums or deeps with shaved closely spaced frames are something I am currently experimenting with.  I think my first move in the spring will be a follower board on the shade side so I can create some space for manipulation.
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T Beek
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« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2011, 01:43:45 PM »

Agreed.  I love follower boards and use them for many reasons, just one being the luxury of having one box that can be manipulated in many ways, from NUC to full hive, with 2,3,4, or 8 frames, 9 frames or 10, if one so chooses.

thomas
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Poppi
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« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2011, 04:36:38 PM »

If you use follower boards...  how should they be cut to fit in the hive if you want to make them yourself?
Do you want to prevent the bees access to the opposite side of the follower board between it and the hive body?

John
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FRAMEshift
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« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2011, 05:03:44 PM »

If you use follower boards...  how should they be cut to fit in the hive if you want to make them yourself?
Do you want to prevent the bees access to the opposite side of the follower board between it and the hive body?

John

We try to make the follower impassable, but you never do it perfectly.  We have screened bottoms which flex as bit, so a few bees can always get through.   But the bees seem to treat the space on the far side of the follower as "outside" the hive. They dump dead bee carcasses there.  I think that's fine.  You just don't want them to start drawing comb on the wrong side of the follower.  We haven't seen that yet.
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Intheswamp
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« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2011, 09:37:33 AM »

If you use follower boards...  how should they be cut to fit in the hive if you want to make them yourself?
Do you want to prevent the bees access to the opposite side of the follower board between it and the hive body?

John

We try to make the follower impassable, but you never do it perfectly.  We have screened bottoms which flex as bit, so a few bees can always get through.   But the bees seem to treat the space on the far side of the follower as "outside" the hive. They dump dead bee carcasses there.  I think that's fine.  You just don't want them to start drawing comb on the wrong side of the follower.  We haven't seen that yet.

Any issues with SHB sneaking into the dead space?  Into the slight space between the edges of the follower boards and the sides of the hive boxes?  Being the newbee in south Alabama I'm paranoid of giving the moving black spots a place to hide...I've already grown to hate'em  angry

Ed
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FRAMEshift
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« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2011, 05:29:17 PM »

We don't seem to have an SHB problem in one of our yards (on red clay).  The other yard on sandier soil does have SHB.... and yes, they can hide just about anywhere.  I like SHB traps that use oil as the trap with vinegar/sugar/banana peel as an attractant.  If you really have that much of a problem, I would put in some traps.   But to answer your question,  I don't think a follower will make the problem any worse.
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tillie
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« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2011, 11:20:37 AM »

Just chiming in for the sake of being one of the participants in this discussion - I LOVE all mediums - the 8 frames - the weight issue, ability to move frames between boxes, overall consistency - and I can't wait to "deal the boxes" in making a split next spring the way Michael described much earlier in this thread.

Linda T in Atlanta
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