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Author Topic: What's your take on All Mediums?  (Read 3157 times)
Adam Foster Collins
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« on: November 18, 2011, 02:37:26 PM »

Do you like the idea of one size fits all?
Do you run all mediums in your apiary?
Do you plan to?
Are you against the idea of all mediums?
If so, why?

I'm expanding into langs this season, and I'm looking to decide the best approach to gear.

Thanks,

Adam
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 09:39:21 AM by buzzbee » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2011, 03:28:14 PM »

We have long hives and use deep frames.

If I were going to go with Langs, I would go to all mediums and 8 frame boxes.

8 frame mediums are a nice weight that won't kill you when working a number of hives.

I strongly prefer having only one size frame and one size box.  You can waste a huge amount of time and resources messing around with all the incompatible combinations created when you try to mix sizes.

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Grid
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2011, 03:35:53 PM »

I like all mediums. For now I have 10 frame boxes.  It does make buying nucs and such a bit of a pain, as none of the providers here sell mediums.  I manage though.

Grid
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Sundog
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« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2011, 04:49:55 PM »

Regarding deeps, I would suggest that deeps offer 50% more area for brood.  So figuring five bees per square inch, that’s roughly 500 bees per side of a medium frame and 750 on a deep.  Times twenty, that’s ten thousand bees in a medium versus fifteen thousand in a deep.  While I doubt that excess honey production is linear…

Everything is a compromise.  Maximize production, or ease and convenience, with many situational variables.  Apparently it all works and I’m certain the bees care less than the beeks.

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« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2011, 06:50:44 PM »

While I doubt that excess honey production is linear…

Honey production is not linear.  It is non-linear in favor of larger populations.   But you are assuming that you are limited to 2 boxes.  You can just add more boxes until you have the same total number of bees.   Two 8-frame mediums is equal to a single 10-frame deep.
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S.M.N.Bee
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« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2011, 07:06:33 PM »

The only issue I see is the work put into building the hives. You have to build one and a half times the boxes and frames.

John
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2011, 08:12:45 PM »

>Do you like the idea of one size fits all?

Yes.

>Do you run all mediums in your apiary?

Yes.

>Are you against the idea of all mediums?
>If so, why?

The typical arguments against mediums:
1) cost.
Valid to some extent, but the extra cost is not enough to cover your back surgery.

2)too many frames to look through to find a queen.
It doesn't matter.  What matters is how fast you can find her and I can find her just as fast with mediums as deeps with less stress on my wrists. Not to mention I seldom look for a queen unless it involves queen rearing anyway.  This is another case of obsessing over something that is not the real issue.  The queen is in the box with the most bees.  That narrows it a lot right there.  Then she's on the frame with the most bees, and that puts you in the ballpark again.

3)the queen likes bigger comb.
The queen likes comb that runs nonstop from top to bottom.  But since you won't give her that, if you go small enough that she doesn't hesitate to move between boxes she will move up and down better than if you have a deep that is ALMOST big enough for her not to want to move off of it.

4)the bees wont move between boxes in the winter.
I have not seen this at all, in fact I observe the opposite.  When the cluster already spans more than one box they move easily between boxes.

I not only get  lighter boxes, and less stress on my back, but I can do a lot of management by the box that I used to do by the frame.  I can do splits by the box instead of going through every frame.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2011, 09:15:54 PM »

Do you like the idea of one size fits all?

I like the idea behind it, but hate the reality of them.

>Do you run all mediums in your apiary?

Ive got a few left, but wont do anymore that way.

>Are you against the idea of all mediums?
>If so, why?

Not, against it. To each their own, but I dont like them. 2 deeps equals 20 frames - 4 mediums equals 40.
I would be the one that brings up the points that MB has in #1 & #2.

Plus, I inherited a bunch of deeps and shallows so really there isnt a need for me to run all mediums Smiley
But even if I hadnt, I would still eventually switch them over to deeps. My back is already shot and I have had both shoulders rebuilt, so the damage is already done at this point Smiley
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bailey
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« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2011, 10:51:02 PM »

all mediums for me.
mix and match anywhere anytime.
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« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2011, 11:52:36 PM »

All mediums for me. Makes it easier to move frames around and lighter on my back. Just as others here have already said.
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rufus
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« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2011, 12:05:40 AM »


I not only get  lighter boxes, and less stress on my back, but I can do a lot of management by the box that I used to do by the frame.  I can do splits by the box instead of going through every frame.


Sorry for the dumb question but just what do you mean by splits by the box and how is that done?
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« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2011, 04:53:16 AM »

>what do you mean by splits by the box

I take a hive that is at least four eight frame mediums full of bees, honey etc. and I put two bottom boards down and "deal" the boxes like cards.  "One for you and one for you."  Then I put as many empties on top as I have boxes and put a cover on them. 

Because of the size of the boxes this distributes the resources much more evenly than ten frame mediums.  If it is during the time of year to split (while the hives are still growing) then there is brood in at least two and sometimes three boxes and honey is distributed enough that if this is done in a flow you end up with two nice hives.  I don't look for the queen.  I don't even pull a frame.  I have split four or five yards in a day this way.
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Michael Bush
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Jim 134
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« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2011, 06:05:26 AM »

>The typical arguments against mediums:
1) cost.
Valid to some extent, but the extra cost is not enough to cover your back surgery.<

 From the supply I use boxes,frames And foundation as less then $1.00 per box.


>Not, against it. To each their own, but I dont like them. 2 deeps equals 20 frames - 4 mediums equals 40.<

 huh  huh As at 3  boxes  mediums frames 30  huh huh equals 2 deeps 20 frames huh huh  on 10 frames boxes huh huh



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« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2011, 08:02:45 AM »

huh  huh As at 3  boxes  mediums frames 30  huh huh equals 2 deeps 20 frames huh huh  on 10 frames boxes huh huh


   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 Smiley


So, my math is a little off . I did, after all, post an 'Apple Pie Moonshine' recipe last night Smiley Its still 20 frames versus 30. Like I said, to each their own, but for me, I dont like all mediums. If everyone else loves them, then I'm tickled pink Smiley
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JackM
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« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2011, 10:07:08 AM »

As a hobbyist, the math is not an issue, heck, I made all my boxes, just bought the frames and had fun in the process.  But as an old fart, all 8 frame supers for me.  I will learn how to make it work.
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Jim 134
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« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2011, 11:42:51 AM »

As a hobbyist, the math is not an issue, heck, I made all my boxes, just bought the frames and had fun in the process.  But as an old fart, all 8 frame supers for me.  I will learn how to make it work.

This is on mediums
 
 On 8 frames boxes you need 4 boxes for the brood 32 frames and about 9" tall then a 10 frames 3 boxes set up 30  frames for the brood  Just my $0.02


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« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 04:15:37 PM by Jim 134 » Logged

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Adam Foster Collins
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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2011, 11:56:58 AM »

I'm having a really hard time deciding.

I can easily see the benefit of a single size, in terms of flexibility. But there are three key issues that make it hard:

1 - Deeps are the norm for brood. That means buyers and sellers are usually in deeps - and that means a compatibility issue somewhere.

2 - I do believe that bees are going to do a little better with that larger comb in the brood area - more honey/pollen and brood space per comb. Not a huge issue - but a consideration.

3 - I have 11 deep boxes piled up outside which I came upon easily through other beekeepers, and I see deeps more commonly than others. And that ties to cost. I can get a lot more bee space for my money. And money is tight.

I'm totally in on the 8 frame thing. So my decision lies between all medium 8's or deep/medium 8's. I'm also in on the narrow frames in the brood nest. So if I use deeps - they will be narrow deeps.

Adam
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L Daxon
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2011, 06:27:23 PM »

I've done it both ways and am now sold on all 8 frame mediums.  I see the interchangeabilty issue as key.  One size fits all, and that means all.  Can pull any frame from any box in any hive and it works in any other box/hive. 

Yes, deeps may be better for brood laying, but I think 8 frame mediums winter better, so it's a wash.

I have bought 8 frame medium nucs.  They are out there.

If someone gave me a deep box(s) I could either cut them down or use them to cover my top pail feeders, when needed.
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linda d
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2011, 08:48:16 PM »

1 - Deeps are the norm for brood. That means buyers and sellers are usually in deeps - and that means a compatibility issue somewhere.

If you are buying, it's not a problem.  It's pretty easy to place deep frames in medium boxes (stacked 2 deep) while the bees establish themselves on the interspersed medium frames.  As soon as possible, you remove the deep frames.  Alternatively, you just cut off the bottoms of the deep frames and place them in medium boxes.

If you are selling, the buyer can place medium frames in a deep box.  There will be some unsupported comb on the bottom of the frame but that's not much of a problem.
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T Beek
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« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2011, 03:22:13 PM »

I love using all mediums.  I've read that some have even used all shallows w/ great success.  Having interchangeable frames is a luxury.  The small increase in price is worth it IMO.

I use all mediums with my LANGS and Long Hives. 

I use my old Deeps for feeding, swarm catching, honey and brood transferring.

thomas
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