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Author Topic: The Vegans Are On To Us.  (Read 4308 times)
DCHoneybees
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« on: November 15, 2011, 10:39:26 PM »

Check out this article written by what I expect is a very sincere but also misinformed activist.  I wonder if she has a job?

http://dchoneybees.blogspot.com/2011/11/moron.html
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AliciaH
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2011, 11:03:13 PM »

Does she have a job?  Don't know...but I wouldn't hire her. 
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deknow
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2011, 11:33:08 PM »

....assize from the box being a foreign shape, what was quoted is as true as anything.  3/4 of the bees in this country pollinate almonds...it is stressful on the bees, it does.cause disorientation and death, and they do transmit disease to one another.
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annette
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 11:33:13 PM »

Gee I didn't know we killed our queens to stop swarming grin grin
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kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2011, 12:10:21 AM »

i think they should just quite eating.  wasn't there a study that showed plants feel pain? 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2011, 06:09:19 AM »

The funny thing about this whole mess is to say stop eating honey because bees are trucked all over for pollination contracts.  Well actually you would probably stop eating almonds, blueberries, and other pollinated plants and eat more honey.  Beekeepers that make a living in this business know the risks of going after pollination contracts for almonds and other plants.  Fact is that they can't make enough money off of honey alone to remain profitable.  So picking up a jar of american honey would help the bees out by increasing the demand and hopefully the price offered to the commercial beekeepers.  Of course this will never happen cause it's easy to just blame the beekeeper and not the powers that be for letting cheap so called honey to be dumped on the market.  Someone should give the writer an education before she starts spewing the BS that this article is.  I did enjoy that little bit about cell phones.  Must have taken the bees 20+ years before the cell phone towers started having an impact on them lol.  Never have seen any evidence that bees have any reaction to cell phones other then a beekeeper getting an email on his blackberry saying he lost his or her retirement before working a hive.   evil
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Take me to the land of milk and honey!!!
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2011, 07:46:48 AM »

Some people just need to be banned from communicating with the rest of the world.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2011, 08:16:04 AM »

And yet the pollination/honey connection that is made highlights the knee-jerk ignorance.  If that person was really interested in making a difference, they'd find out the truth, and speak with a local beekeeper about honey instead of lumping all in the same big category.

But she'd probably be still hung up on the "wrong size boxes", that is SO MEAN!!   rolleyes
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Rick
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2011, 08:49:14 AM »

I did not read the article.  Mostly because, despite the fact that, by most of ya'lls standards, I'm a flaming liberal,  veganism makes absolutely no sense in the natural world.  These people obviously never took biology 101.

You want to be a vegan?  Fine with me.  You want to be a militant vegan?  You are an idiot, get off my lawn.

love,
ziffa!
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T Beek
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2011, 09:17:27 AM »

The article borders on fanaticism and should satisfy most fanatics.  Obviously the author knows little about beekeeping nor the food they or we consume.   

Too bad they've presented such a misinformed broad stroke against beeks and honeybees.  Besides being clueless on many levels, the few truths that were contained in the article were obscured by the apparent hate and/or misunderstanding of reality.


thomas
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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2011, 10:06:04 AM »

ziffa  grin

you are a flaming liberal, but a nice one!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2011, 12:03:27 PM »


You want to be a vegan?  Fine with me.  You want to be a militant vegan?  You are an idiot, get off my lawn.

love,
ziffa!

LOL!

Get off my lawn...you're killing the grubs!
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Rick
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2011, 12:57:39 PM »

Several yeas ago, I drove refrigerated truck delivering meat to local restaurants.  One fine morning, I had fun following a small car bearing a bumper sticker stating "Meat is Murder" down the highway.  The poor driver didn't have enough horses under the hood to pull away and I thought she was going to vomit as she realized what I was hauling so closely behind her.  I must admit, I enjoyed it.  Unfortunately, my exit was only a short distance and my fun was short-lived.... Sad
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caticind
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« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2011, 03:29:07 PM »

...by most of ya'lls standards, I'm a flaming liberal

You want to be a vegan?  Fine with me.  You want to be a militant vegan?  You are an idiot, get off my lawn.

Likewise, ziffa!  I live next to the town that Jessie Helms used to say should be cordoned off as a commie zoo (and I'll take that as a badge of pride, thanks!).  I have friends with all sorts of odd ways, and I love my vegan friends even if they're a challenge to cook for.

The militant vegans are another matter.

Seems like militant-anythings (whether its about veganism or gun rights or teetotalers or potheads or any other thing) are equally nasty.  The problem isn't so much the content of their ideology as their insistence that they have found the ONE TRUE WAY!! and that as soon as they tell you what they think you will be instantly ashamed and converted.

File under "Ignore the stupid while I go on being a cheerful beekeeping hippie"....    rolleyes
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« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2011, 04:01:20 PM »

you are a flaming liberal, but a nice one!
Is there any other kind  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Hemlock
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« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2011, 04:01:48 PM »

veganism makes absolutely no sense in the natural world.  These people obviously never took biology 101.
love,
ziffa!
So true.

I like to challenge vegans to watch "Nanook of the North" or study primitive cultures.  Listening to them make excuses for themselves later is kinda fun.  However i understand wanting to rid ones diet of 'PROCESSED' foods.  That is what i think most vegans are really trying to do.  Sadly they cut out essential foods due to some sort of zealotry.  I dunno

Boy! You mix this article with the one about Monsanto buying the bee genetics company and we have a Bee-pocalypse on our hands.
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JP
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« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2011, 07:46:47 PM »

"Meat is murder" Who's up for some hunting?  grin

BTW she referred to bees as fellows.  grin

Read a page and a half and that was all I could stomach.

Don't care for extremists much. They tend to separate themselves from the human race and I like people. Well, most of them anyway.  Wink


...JP
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« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2011, 08:29:25 PM »

She is "brain damaged" from lack of B-12  Smiley
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gardeningfireman
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« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2011, 09:46:36 PM »

Typical wacko nutcase! I think I will go to my "PETA" meeting tomorrow and have a meatloaf sandwich!  PETA meaning People Eating Tasty Animals, that is!!! grin
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hardwood
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« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2011, 10:21:41 PM »

I love vegans! They taste like chicken.

Scott
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"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

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« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2011, 04:07:35 PM »

The funny thing about this whole mess is to say stop eating honey because bees are trucked all over for pollination contracts.  Well actually you would probably stop eating almonds, blueberries, and other pollinated plants and eat more honey.  Beekeepers that make a living in this business know the risks of going after pollination contracts for almonds and other plants.  Fact is that they can't make enough money off of honey alone to remain profitable.  So picking up a jar of american honey would help the bees out by increasing the demand and hopefully the price offered to the commercial beekeepers.  Of course this will never happen cause it's easy to just blame the beekeeper and not the powers that be for letting cheap so called honey to be dumped on the market.  Someone should give the writer an education before she starts spewing the BS that this article is.  I did enjoy that little bit about cell phones.  Must have taken the bees 20+ years before the cell phone towers started having an impact on them lol.  Never have seen any evidence that bees have any reaction to cell phones other then a beekeeper getting an email on his blackberry saying he lost his or her retirement before working a hive.   evil
My trouble with this article is the good information in is masked by the inaccuracies and rhetoric.

 Large population densities of any single species means trouble, large scale honeybee pollination as in U.S. Almond regions was a disaster waiting to happen. But laying the cause on honey and bees is cart before horse (by a few Parsecs). 
The other pollinators mentioned  the article  have been killed off as pests  and then honey bees shipped in to fill the gap.

The issue is the economics and therefore regulatory environment that makes it viable to kill off an Ecosystem and then  ship in a single species replacement, which surprise surprise then collapses.

Not buying honey isnt going to bring back a destroyed ecosystem.
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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
rgy
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« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2011, 05:41:02 PM »

to me it read like a 9-12 grade required 3000 word essay.  I wouldn't put much time concerning myself with it.
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JP
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« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2011, 07:54:05 PM »

Does she?


...JP  grin

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« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2011, 04:34:17 AM »

The funny thing about this whole mess is to say stop eating honey because bees are trucked all over for pollination contracts.  Well actually you would probably stop eating almonds, blueberries, and other pollinated plants and eat more honey.  Beekeepers that make a living in this business know the risks of going after pollination contracts for almonds and other plants.  Fact is that they can't make enough money off of honey alone to remain profitable.  So picking up a jar of american honey would help the bees out by increasing the demand and hopefully the price offered to the commercial beekeepers.  Of course this will never happen cause it's easy to just blame the beekeeper and not the powers that be for letting cheap so called honey to be dumped on the market.  Someone should give the writer an education before she starts spewing the BS that this article is.  I did enjoy that little bit about cell phones.  Must have taken the bees 20+ years before the cell phone towers started having an impact on them lol.  Never have seen any evidence that bees have any reaction to cell phones other then a beekeeper getting an email on his blackberry saying he lost his or her retirement before working a hive.   evil
If I can get the origin info We are not going to buy U.S. almonds or fruit. And given the latest news that any Honey marked as U.S. we get over here  is probably not even from the American continent, We wont be buying that either. Next time I'm in the U.S. I'll see if I can buy a jar of honey at a farmers market and if its the actual bee keeper i'm buying it from  I'll make sure I pay the same rate as over here, that will be about $7.50 per lb.
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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
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« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2011, 08:38:29 PM »

... veganism makes absolutely no sense... You want to be a vegan?  Fine with me... get off my lawn...

And don't forget to tell them to spit out your grass!!!!  grin
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zippelk
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« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2011, 10:14:05 AM »

HaHa, those stupid vegans! What does she know? But why stop at mocking them, insulting them, intimidating them, and proposing to take away their 1st amendment rights? Let's round em up and lock em up! Not just the vegans, everybody with minority beliefs! And minority genes!

Give me friggin break. Who's being militant and extreme here? There are facts and opinions. We should be able to discuss facts objectively, but opinions are subjective and people often cling to theirs strongly, readily showing you their ugly side when they disagree. I think it is safe to say as fact that most commercial honey producers (and maybe most all honey producers?) prioritize production over individual animal welfare; doesn’t matter if a few bees die, get lost, eat a suboptimal diet, get sick, whatever, as long as the colonies persist and honey keeps coming in maximal quantities. That woman’s opinion is that such an approach is wrong, the consensus here is that it’s OK. That doesn’t mean she’s stupid; clearly she is a thoughtful person to even worry about a bee. Does she distort some facts and get some wrong? Yep. Is she preachy, telling people what they should do rather than simply stating what she chooses for herself and why? Yep. Is she a hypocrite about animal suffering? Yep. But is she absolutely right that some societal practices (pesticides) hurt bees? Ayep, and I think you agree. Is she right that most commercial beeks place production above individual welfare? Yep, and I think you'll agree there too. Is she right to (try to) air the facts so people can make informed decisions? Yep, whether you like it or not. And does she deserve to be attacked personally for this? Nope. If you want to correct her facts, fine. While you're at it, why don't you point out to her that animals suffer in the commercial production of granulated sugar too (farming/harvest of cane and beets), at least with honey you can grow your own and have control over how it's done if you want. But at the end of the day, opinions are opinions, and she's entitled to hers.

p.s.1 - speaking of facts, there is only one 'nutrient' that you can't get with a vegan diet, and your body makes it anyway.
p.s.2 - don't forget that people who manage insects are considered weirdo extremists by the majority of the world.
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kathyp
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« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2011, 11:55:33 AM »

Quote
Does she distort some facts and get some wrong? Yep. Is she preachy, telling people what they should do rather than simply stating what she chooses for herself and why?

so it's ok if you are wrong as long as your intentions are good? 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2011, 05:38:52 PM »

so it's ok if you are wrong as long as your intentions are good? 

no man, I said you can correct her errors if you want, but you can't 'correct' her opinion and shouldn't otherwise beat her up if you don't like that opinion.  peace.
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« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2011, 06:32:30 PM »

 peace.
I don't think that word means what you think it means...

...It seems like you use it to excuse your hypercriticalness about other being critical.

So if i say that lady is a crackpot lobbyist from the agave industry BUT say "peace" at the end you would be alright with it?

readily showing you their ugly side when they disagree.
Yes you do!

Oh, and...peace


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« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2011, 10:31:08 PM »

Does she?


...JP  grin

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« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2011, 07:02:25 PM »

I live next to the town that Jessie Helms used to say should be cordoned off as a commie zoo (and I'll take that as a badge of pride, thanks!).
[/quote]

caticind,

Do you remember this band? I think they originated close to that zoo town!

Southern Culture on the Skids: "Put Your Teeth Up on the Window Sill"

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Sirach
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« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2011, 05:29:59 AM »

... Give me friggin break. Who's being militant and extreme here? There are facts and opinions.... at the end of the day, opinions are opinions, and she's entitled to hers.

Give me a frigging break zip!!!  I am not the Blue nose nut case trying to interfeer with or regiment other peooples' lives Alisa is!!!! Facts speak for theirself and are self evident, opinions are deaf mutes. 

The trouble with nut cases like Alisa is that she has AN OPINION and even if a fact leaped up out of the ground and bit off Alisa's nose, she could not recognise it as a fact because she is incaple of changing her mind, it is set in stone.  So we can truthfully say that her brain is calcified.  But the really really scary thing is that she is likely registered to vote.  And like any insane person, Alisa will keep on, and on, and on, and on, constantly repeating the same action and singing the the same old hymn, until one day she finally persuades a stupid or else corrupt government official to dance to the brain rotting tune she's humming.  Doktor Joseph Goobles PhD, War Criminal, and Nazi Propaganda Minister once said, "If you tell a lie that is big enough, and you tell that lie often enough, soon everyone will believe it."  I wish that it was not so, but it is.
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« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2011, 08:58:23 AM »

so it's ok if you are wrong as long as your intentions are good? 

no man, I said you can correct her errors if you want, but you can't 'correct' her opinion and shouldn't otherwise beat her up if you don't like that opinion.  peace.

But it is ok to beat us up because you don't like our opinion of her.  And insinuate that we are Nazi's because you don't like our opinions.

Oh...that reminds me of something somewhat related...feel free to cross out the "liberal" and insert "vegan".


peace.  grin
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Rick
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« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2011, 12:50:52 PM »

I live next to the town that Jessie Helms used to say should be cordoned off as a commie zoo (and I'll take that as a badge of pride, thanks!).


caticind,

Do you remember this band? I think they originated close to that zoo town!

Southern Culture on the Skids: "Put Your Teeth Up on the Window Sill"


Southern Culture on the Skids (SCOTS) are an amazing 3-piece band.  If you ever have the chance check them out.  

My band covers a couple of their tunes and like them we also have a hot woman bass player, very cool cool.  Not sure where they're from originally but for bookings the address I have is in Chaple Hill, NC.  They recently played a gig in Milwaukee so they're still together.

thomas

PS (some awfully thinskinned folks posting on this thread rolleyes)
[/quote]
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« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2011, 03:02:26 PM »

so it's ok if you are wrong as long as your intentions are good? 

no man, I said you can correct her errors if you want, but you can't 'correct' her opinion and shouldn't otherwise beat her up if you don't like that opinion.  peace.

But it is ok to beat us up because you don't like our opinion of her.  And insinuate that we are Nazi's because you don't like our opinions.

Oh...that reminds me of something somewhat related...feel free to cross out the "liberal" and insert "vegan".


peace.  grin

Niiiiccce. Course, it doesn't make conservatives look too intelligent to use this kind of humor.
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« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2011, 09:05:01 PM »

Quote
Niiiiccce. Course, it doesn't make conservatives look too intelligent to use this kind of humor.

i don't know. that's what libs usually tell me to do on about the 3rd post of a conversation.   Wink  had a little contest going once to see how long it would take (not here) and 3 was average.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2011, 10:19:53 PM »

Sorry luvin', it wasn't meant a blanket statement in this case, I just get a kick out of the picture (even if I do agree  tongue ) and don't have the means of changing the wording right now....

It was pointed at the person who called us Nazi's:
Quote
HaHa, those stupid vegans! What does she know? But why stop at mocking them, insulting them, intimidating them, and proposing to take away their 1st amendment rights? Let's round em up and lock em up! Not just the vegans, everybody with minority beliefs! And minority genes!

I'm more than tired of the people preaching tolerance and freedom of speech who are the first to want to take away the speech of those who disagree.

Nobody here said the author needed to be censored.  A few not so nice things about her misinformation and conviction.  None of us care that she writes that stuff, but we do appreciate the freedom to counter it. 

I didn't even see in her article that the vegans should protest honeybee farms.  Maybe she isn't tied to PETA or HSUS who would definately have us stop beekeeping.
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Rick
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« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2011, 02:28:37 PM »

Quote
HaHa, those stupid vegans! What does she know? But why stop at mocking them, insulting them, intimidating them, and proposing to take away their 1st amendment rights? Let's round em up and lock em up! Not just the vegans, everybody with minority beliefs! And minority genes!
You don't think this was tongue in cheek?
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T Beek
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« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2011, 02:38:26 PM »

Time to change the channel perhaps.............. huh huh huh huh 

Caution ahead; mouths could be engaged before brains are activated grin

thomas
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« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2011, 04:15:37 PM »

HaHa, those stupid vegans! What does she know? But why stop at mocking them, insulting them, intimidating them, and proposing to take away their 1st amendment rights? Let's round em up and lock em up! Not just the vegans, everybody with minority beliefs! And minority genes!

Are we mocking, insulting toward the author? fishhit Sure you can make a case there.  Welcoming here? Jerry No. Reacting to a big part of our lives being attacked in a somewhat ignorant way?  hissy fit Sure. Intimidating and proposing to take away rights?  jail That didn't happen, no way.  Then that next part is a huge unpleasant stretch  whip, maybe a bit TIC there. I dunno

Those were mostly accusations, not tongues in cheeks.  butt kick

My tongue is usually in my cheek, if that makes it better  banana devil
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« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2011, 04:18:24 PM »

Quote
HaHa, those stupid vegans! What does she know? But why stop at mocking them, insulting them, intimidating them, and proposing to take away their 1st amendment rights? Let's round em up and lock em up! Not just the vegans, everybody with minority beliefs! And minority genes!

You don't think this was tongue in cheek?
No, it likely was not.  If you spend any time on political forums you lean to know when you are being mocked and when you are being accused.  In my mind that was an accusation worthy of a defense.  For whatever that is worth...


Caution ahead; mouths could be engaged before brains are activated grin
thomas
Almost to late for that my friend.  I am still hoping that the Shill from the agave industry doesn't cause us to turn on each other in her favor.

To that end I ask all to relax & have a great Thanksgiving (if you're from the USA) but most importantly....




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« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2011, 06:58:49 AM »

"It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought w/out accepting it."
-Aristotle


And back to all you beeks;  Happy Turkey Day!  We're having prime rib from our delicious homegrown steer,  Mmm-mmmmm.


thomas
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« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2011, 10:19:08 AM »

"It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought w/out accepting it."
-Aristotle


And back to all you beeks;  Happy Turkey Day!  We're having prime rib from our delicious homegrown steer,  Mmm-mmmmm.


thomas

Nice quote, reminds me of the one "Never insult your neighbor until you've walked a mile in his moccasins". That one stuck with me at a young age. I believe I heard an Indian say the quote on a commercial many, many years ago.

That home cooked steer sounds mighty delicious! You didn't name him right?  Wink


...JP
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« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2011, 10:32:50 AM »

I think the quote you mention is biblical in origin, could be wrong though.  The one you mention is more popular (I've got a copy hanging in the garage).

Yeah our animals all get names, the kids used to name them all, even the chickens.  This guy was known as 'Dude' and got alot of lovin' and good pastures during his life, along w/ a bottle of homebrew before the killin' was done, which has been our tradition under such circumstances for quite a while Smiley.

thomas
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« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2011, 11:34:27 AM »

I think the quote you mention is biblical in origin, could be wrong though.  The one you mention is more popular (I've got a copy hanging in the garage).

Yeah our animals all get names, the kids used to name them all, even the chickens.  This guy was known as 'Dude' and got alot of lovin' and good pastures during his life, along w/ a bottle of homebrew before the killin' was done, which has been our tradition under such circumstances for quite a while Smiley.

thomas
And I thought my live stock was spoiled!  rolleyes
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« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2011, 11:37:28 AM »

I think the quote you mention is biblical in origin, could be wrong though.  The one you mention is more popular (I've got a copy hanging in the garage).

Yeah our animals all get names, the kids used to name them all, even the chickens.  This guy was known as 'Dude' and got alot of lovin' and good pastures during his life, along w/ a bottle of homebrew before the killin' was done, which has been our tradition under such circumstances for quite a while Smiley.

thomas

Remember, folks, never accept a drink from T Beek....LOL cheer
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« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2011, 11:39:29 AM »

I think the quote you mention is biblical in origin, could be wrong though.  The one you mention is more popular (I've got a copy hanging in the garage).

Yeah our animals all get names, the kids used to name them all, even the chickens.  This guy was known as 'Dude' and got alot of lovin' and good pastures during his life, along w/ a bottle of homebrew before the killin' was done, which has been our tradition under such circumstances for quite a while Smiley.

thomas

Remember, folks, never accept a drink from T Beek....LOL cheer

Now that's nasty.  evil
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« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2011, 11:56:52 AM »

She feels threatened because beekeepers and bees work very hard and are accountable for their success and don't just occupy space jacking their jaw. 
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