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Author Topic: Another post on Oxalic  (Read 1329 times)

Offline VolunteerK9

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Another post on Oxalic
« on: November 14, 2011, 02:18:28 PM »
I recently 'bleached the insides of my hives' wink wink, nod nod, using the oxalic dribble method. I know that the vapor method can be used repeatedly over a brief period of time and the dribble is to be used more sparingly because of its reputed harshness. My question is, since my bees were dribbled, would it be their demise if I did a vapor treatment a few weeks later? Or should I wait until early this January or February? Im really wanting to be as miteless as possible shooting for an early, quick Spring buildup.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Another post on Oxalic
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2011, 03:01:10 PM »
It's the dribbling that damages their Malpighian tubules .  I know of no evidence of it happening with the vapor and my experience is you can vaporize several times, which would seem to indicate that there is no damage from that.  My guess is it will do less damage than dribbling.  Either will disrupt all of the helpful microbes in the hive... but vaporizing will probably do less damage.
Michael Bush
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Offline JWChesnut

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Re: Another post on Oxalic
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2011, 05:04:19 PM »
I vaporized with an (accidental) double  dose last year and killed each and every bee's in a 4 frame cluster in 24 hours. I don't know what the retreatment interval would be safe, but vapor can have acute toxic effects with a relatively mild overdose of weight per hive.  Makes me think that rapid vapor retreatment might be very dangerous.   Vapor leaves a white to cream  vapor deposit throughout the hive.  Until the deposit vanishes, I would think that retreatment might overdose the hive.

Randy Oliver's "scientific beekeeping" site indicates that the vapor deposit is just another route into acidifying the body fluids of the bees, dispersing very fine dry crystals that are consumed by the bees.

That said, I am interested in combined treatments, because I have no real brood break. I live in mild winter Central California, and Eucalyptus is now beginnning to bloom.  Major flow by January.  The oxalic dribble doesn't kill brood under caps, so a retreatment in some form is necessary.

I am thinking that a formic acid treatment using Mite Away strips might be the best over-treatment if I time it for a couple of warm days in a  "January thaw" that would allow the Formic acid to outgas.   My hives have reduced entrances this time of year, so the recommendation to increase ventilation during formic treatment is problematic.

Offline Michael Bush

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Re: Another post on Oxalic
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2011, 08:40:32 PM »
I did the vapor every week for three weeks with no noticeable ill effects on the bees.  I did try an overdose on a hive that was mean as snakes to see if I could kill the queen without killing the bees.  An overdoes will harm them, yes.
Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Offline VolunteerK9

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Re: Another post on Oxalic
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2011, 09:29:11 PM »
I did try an overdose on a hive that was mean as snakes to see if I could kill the queen without killing the bees. 

LoL. Im kind of betwixt and between on the two methods. Dribbling was super fast but vaporization is more effective and less hazardous. (to the bees at least) Guess its off to the hardware store to make me a vaporizer.

Offline Finski

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Re: Another post on Oxalic
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2011, 01:43:09 AM »
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If you have brood all the time, you should use thymol of formic acid gasification. The treatment takes 3 weeks  period. Out temperature need to be over 15C.

You may move too all brood frames into one  hive. And then give simple  trickling to those  broodless hives and thymol or formic treatment to brood hive.

Oxalic trickling is harmfull to brood.

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