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Author Topic: No mite treatment at all  (Read 2222 times)
TwT
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Galactic Bee
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Ted


« on: July 22, 2005, 11:31:45 AM »

just been wondering who in here uses no mite treatment at all, mite treatment includes anything( chemicals , FGMO, sucrocide, vinegar, ect. If you use drone comb this is also treatment. I want to know who uses nothing for mites at all and are you on small cell or regular (large) cell foundation, ect. I just got 2 hives for my father that a his friend gave him, my fathers friends father-n-law died 12 years ago and the bee's have been there ever year in the woods by his dog pins and he told my father to come and get them, nobody has ever touched these hives in 12 years, my father already has 1 hive going on 9 years with no treatment and 2 hives going on 5 years and all his hives are on regular foundation and have never been treated with anything. im getting about 5 nucs from these hives next year  my father lives in louisiana and bought his 3 hives as package's ( different years) from a man in mississippi , he bought about 7 packages and these 3 of his is the only ones that has survived
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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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Michael Bush
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2005, 11:58:13 AM »

I have about fifty hives in three locations on natural or small cell. In two of those locations I use nothing at all. In one of those, I have been using Oxalic acid in most of the hives in order to monitor the success of the natural cell size and in order to have a clean bill of health to ship queens without any apistan strips etc.

At the end of a year of not treating there are an average of about 100 Varroa mites per hive. The following spring I (and a state inspector) can find no mites in the hives.
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Michael Bush
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Joseph Clemens
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2005, 01:08:11 PM »

I have 6 colonies in two locations 18 miles apart. I've been keeping bees here in Tucson for going on 9 years and I have never used any treatments of any kind, ever, no chemicals, no antibiotics, no essential oils, no FGMO, no acids, I haven't even fed them since 2000. I haven't even requeened any until just this year. I have managed to get some small-cell into many of them.
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Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
latebee
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2005, 10:48:31 PM »

My only question here would be---How long and how severe are winters in your area? It seems- when the bees are stressed by any parasite-  the long cold winters do them in,or maybe it is long cold damp winters that are the culprit. Not being critical here at all,but just trying to learn why no treatments  will work for some and not for others. If it were a matter of breeding, natural selection by mother nature would have accomplished a super bee long before this. Sometimes I overthink problems and your "scientific neglect" approach interests me. When I first started to keep bees,I lost every colony-every winter. Always had ample food stores in each hive. This was when I used no treatments whatsoever. Now I can say that at least 60%(not too bad when compared to others near me) of my hives survive the  upstate new york winters. I have had both feral and packaged italians... no experience keeping other strains. So for now it appears treatment for mites of any type along with fumigillan are the only option I have. I will say that I have not tried small cell foundation untill this year.
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2005, 12:45:42 AM »

Quote from: latebee
My only question here would be---How long and how severe are winters in your area?



interesting point of view latebee, could be something to long cold winters!! what are the winters like in the area where they got the russian bee's from?  I think it was a mountain regend but not sure if it was north or south russia but think it was the northern part.


 
Quote
If it were a matter of breeding, natural selection by mother nature would have accomplished a super bee long before this.


could it be that the bee's here in the USA just haven't had the time to evolve to deal with the mites, they say russian bee's in russia have lived with the mites for 100 years, and how long have the USA bee's been with the mites, 15-20 years? not saying we didnt have some survivers already. but most of us have been buying from commercial bee sellers that still have to treat there hives to stay in business, they can't afford to lose 100's or 1000's of hives (to find there survivers , if any) and keep there sales up, they have to make a living to, some have just in the last few years started raising bee's for survival or mite tollerance.


Quote
Sometimes I overthink problems and your "scientific neglect" approach interests me.



we need some people that think about things more in depth, keeps the ball rolling and  more points of view. but sometimes the simple approach is the hardest to see.


Quote
When I first started to keep bees,I lost every colony-every winter. Always had ample food stores in each hive. This was when I used no treatments whatsoever. Now I can say that at least 60%(not too bad when compared to others near me) of my hives survive the  upstate new york winters.



see I never thought about how or if anyone with cold and long winters might effect the no treatment question. could a long winter stress effect mite tollerance?


question: what would yall think if a hive that was mite resistant in the south and then you brought it up north with the longer, and colder  winters,, do you think they should suvive or would the long winter stress effect the resistance, what I mean to say would the temp effect a hives mite resistance or the stress? has there ever been a study on this, the wild russian bee's over sea's deal with it but they have for a long time, dont know how there winters compair to northern states. might bee because there on natural cell? dont know.



Quote
I will say that I have not tried small cell foundation until this year.


might be the trick, but you would have to try and see when you get them going. keep use updated
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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

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Amateurs built the ark,
Professionals built the Titanic
Joseph Clemens
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2005, 01:04:56 AM »

Every couple of years we get a few minutes of snow. Sometimes we can get temperatures in the teens a couple of nights per year. Our Winters are usually quite a bit more moist than most of the remainder of the year.

Honestly I can't really be sure why mites and diseases have never been an issue for my bees. If it is our weather, that would give me some gratification,  enduring 100F+ temperatures has to have some redeeming benefits. Smiley

I empathise with your losses. I certainly hope the small-cell helps your bees remain healthy. I can imagine how frustrating it would be to be dependent on chemicals especially since I have such reluctance to subject my bees to any myself.
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<img src="[url]http://banners.wunderground.com/weathersticker/miniWeather06_both/language/www/US/AZ/Marana.gif
" border=0
alt="Click for Marana, Arizona Forecast" height=50 width=150>[/url]
Joseph Clemens
Beekeeping since 1964
10+ years in Tucson, Arizona
12+ hives and 15+ nucs
No chemicals -- no treatments of any kind, EVER.
Finsky
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2005, 05:42:34 AM »

I have had varroa 20 years in my hives. My hives are 50 km from Russian border. It arrived from there, and varroa wandered forward 50 km per year. It means that in 10 year across  Finland.  

If some one says that he manage without treatment, he is really lucky. But that is not good advise at all.

We can read that in California region and in some places in Canada 50% hives have died.  Where varroa comes there 90% of feral bee colonies died in short time.  Same with South Africa.

I got Apistan resistant mite population 4 years ago in my hives. Now I have used only oxalic acid solution for winterball. Mite level is very low.
 
I have followed 8 years one feral colony in the old dairy house. It is all the time alive. This year I try mate my queens with it's drones.  Normally varroa kills in 3-4 year bee colony.

There is no easy way to hadle varroa. " But it is good to live in Hope" , said tapeworm.
.
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