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Author Topic: The 99%  (Read 17516 times)
iddee
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« Reply #200 on: February 18, 2012, 08:33:23 AM »

I agree. I wonder if glasses would help you any?

BTW, in your signature line, what are brances?
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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T Beek
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« Reply #201 on: February 18, 2012, 09:00:56 AM »

 lau lau  I was wondering how long it was gonna take for someone to notice that.  You're the big winner iddee  Wink

t
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ronbert
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« Reply #202 on: February 18, 2012, 01:45:28 PM »

As in all economic theories the nature of man is ignored.
Some years ago my wife, children and I did 2 years of voluntary service in a community ( not a commune). The community was based on the Book of Acts. The land and all housing was held in common
via a legal corp. The community had been started during WW2. There were approx. 30 residents and upward of 100 volunteers at any given time. Today it is a dismal failure.
There are lots of examples of Georges ideas: Hudderite Colonies, the Puritans, the Budderhof, and many,
many groups such as the one my family volunteered for. The ones that "succeed" have residents with a common goal. Diversity seems to destroy the group; yet the groups seek diversity.
IMHO any economic theory that attempts to project itself over a large diverse group of people will fail.
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kathyp
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« Reply #203 on: February 18, 2012, 02:06:16 PM »

Quote
As in all economic theories the nature of man is ignored.

that's it exactly.  people say that capitalism is evil, but it is not evil, it is the outgrowth freedom.  man seeks to succeed, gain, and innovate. what we have now is never as good as what we can get or what we can do.
 greed, war, and excess are also the nature of man.  this is why so many of the founders warned that freedom without conscience could not succeed any better than dictatorship.


John Adams said it best, i think.

While our country remains untainted with the principles and manners which are now producing desolation in so many parts of the world; while she continues sincere, and incapable of insidious and impious policy, we shall have the strongest reason to rejoice in the local destination assigned us by Providence. But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation, while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candour, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world. Because we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Oaths in this country are as yet universally considered as sacred obligations. That which you have taken, and so solemnly repeated on that venerable ground, is an ample pledge of your sincerity and devotion to your country and its government

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #204 on: February 18, 2012, 02:27:50 PM »

Geoism is 'Natural Economics' based on original truth, so that is true, it has largely been ignored for that and other more sinister reasons.

Delaware was the first State I know of to actively establish some of Georges philosophy at the village level in 1900, forming the town of Arden.  Its still there and still thriving.  In 1922 a second town was created.  Ardentown was created under the same philosophy as Arden and in 1950 a third, Ardencroft was formed.  All three are based on the "SINGLE Tax" system and are doing exceptionally well. 

Others (as have been mentioned repeatedly above beat a dead horse) in the U.S. include areas of Delaware (as mentioned), Alabama, Alaska, California and Pennsylvania.  There are many other examples of the successful applications of geoism, both new and old around the globe and growing all the time.  All one need do is look.


Capitalism in and of itself is not evil.  Only capitalists running amok are evil  grin .  Kinda like guns don't kill, people do.

t
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kathyp
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« Reply #205 on: February 18, 2012, 03:50:54 PM »

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Geoism is 'Natural Economics' based on original truth

natural to whom and who's truth?

  what you have done is make the case for the kind of government (or lack of it) that we are supposed to have; each state and each community in that state, as the state allows, having the freedom to design the way of life that fits them best. 

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #206 on: February 20, 2012, 07:09:59 AM »

Still haven't read the material, heh? 

Your loss.  I guess you must be too smart to learn anything new, lucky you  rolleyes.

t
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T Beek
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« Reply #207 on: February 21, 2012, 03:37:10 PM »

"Let us turn to Nature and read the mandates of justice in its laws.  Nature gives to labor, and to labor alone.  Even in the Garden of Eden, people would have starved without exertion.  Now, take two people of equal incomes.  One gets income from labor; the other, from the rent of LAND.  Is it just that they should contribute equally to the expenses of the State?  Certainly not."

"The worker's income represents wealth created and added to the general wealth of the State.  The Landowner's income represents only income 'taken' from the general stock, with nothing given in return.  The worker's right to income comes from the justification of Nature, which returns wealth to labor.  The Landowner's claim is a mere fictitious right, created by municipal regulation.  It is unknown and unrecognized by Nature.  It is a monopoly of natural opportunities-gifts that Nature offers impartially to all, and in which all have an equal birthright."

Henry George
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cbuchh48
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« Reply #208 on: February 22, 2012, 09:45:46 PM »

Our country must have started out on that way of thinking. Federal income tax replaced the alcohol tax when they passed prohibition in 1919. They only taxed "unearned income" such as rents, capital gains and such. My how things have changed.
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T Beek
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« Reply #209 on: February 23, 2012, 10:38:56 AM »

You are so right cbuchh48.  Taxes on Labor was unheard of until the end of prohibition.

And lest we forget; just how short 'some' memories are  Wink

Perhaps some of the blame belongs to the complete lack of 'significant' history being taught in American History Classes.  Unfortunately, that also happens to fall on 'all' of us  Undecided .

t
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bee-nuts
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« Reply #210 on: February 24, 2012, 02:52:50 AM »

They used words like patriotic duty when world war one and two hit as a way of shaming those who might say they should not pay taxes on labor.  Of course people were willing to be patriotic. 

And there is a real reason why your 10-40 says voluntarily!  Because if it said you have to pay the tax, it would be unconstitutional.  What is also strange is if you have to pay the taxes and legally, why does the government not provide an office ect. that helps you do your taxes?  Any other outfit like insurance companies etc. tell you how much you owe after copay bla, bla, bla, bla....... but for an agency to tell you to tell them how much you owe...?  And they love to get over paid as well.  Come on, there is more to it boys and girls.  Hmm, maybe its illegal, but once you sign your name, you agree that you owe, and if you lied about any of it, you committed fraud and can go to prison.
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T Beek
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« Reply #211 on: March 01, 2012, 06:27:25 AM »

The "occupy' (99%) movements biggest mistake IMO was its inability to develop a coherent plan.  

Perhaps as they regroup for this years activities they should be studying and promoting the works of Henry George and his "Single Tax' economics and use that as their starting point this time.  

Just a thought, but somehow the times seem ripe after 100 years of suppressing his clearheaded solutions, to bring them back to the surface again.  At least for those who actually understand Geoism.

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