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Author Topic: The 99%  (Read 16377 times)
BlueBee
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« Reply #100 on: February 09, 2012, 09:15:37 PM »

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why would i take advice on paying more taxes from a man who has sheltered much of his wealth in a non-profit?
Huhhhhh Huh

OK if you don’t think Warren Buffet knows anything about economics, how about this guy?  VC guru Nick Nanauer.  He paid 11% on an 8 figure income last year.  11 PERCENT!  Said in the Reagan era he would be paying 35%.  “People in the top 1 percent are paying historically low tax rates," he says. "That's simply an unsustainable way to run a capitalistic society."  He says.  He goes on to say that people who think the current low rate on the super rich are going to build jobs simply don’t understand economics.

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/millionaire-investor-calls-higher-taxes-rich-145808200.html

Listen and learn folks.
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kathyp
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« Reply #101 on: February 09, 2012, 09:18:19 PM »

i asked you a question and you have never answered it.  what is the purpose of asking for more money from any taxpayer.  what will it accomplish.  what will be done with the  money.  what problems will it solve?.....or, is this just a leftist "fairness" issue.  

oh, BTW....did you hear why Buffets sec pays so much in taxes?

as for what he's done with his money, i suggest you do your homework.  he has sheltered the majority of his wealth in a nonprofit so that the government will not get the money when he dies.  now, if he really believed that the government should have that money, he wouldn't have done that.  if he really believed that the government made best use of money, he wouldn't have done that.  IF he wanted to pay more money he could, and his company wouldn't be in trouble for not paying it's taxes.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BlueBee
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« Reply #102 on: February 09, 2012, 09:29:00 PM »

It’s simple accounting, Government needs to pay for what it spends?  Why is this concept so difficult to agree on?  Raising taxes on the super rich makes them pay their fair share of the burden but more importantly it actually helps pay off all the spending Dubya and the Republicans have done.  The GOP just spends, spends, and spends some more without ever paying for it.  The Dems are trying to be RESPONSIBLE by actually paying for what is spent.

My preference would be to raise taxes and cut spending to start eating away at all the debt (and yearly interest payments).  When the debt is gone, start cutting taxes for everybody.  Unfortunately the GOP is still living in fantasy land where you can spend, spend, and spend and never pay for it.  I think they call that Greece over in Europe.

When is the last time the GOP ever paid for any of their spending programs?
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kathyp
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« Reply #103 on: February 09, 2012, 09:59:35 PM »

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Raising taxes on the super rich makes them pay their fair share of the burden but more importantly it actually helps pay off all the spending Dubya and the Republicans have done.  The GOP just spends, spends, and spends some more without ever paying for it.  The Dems are trying to be RESPONSIBLE by actually paying for what is spent.

so explain to me why the dem congress and the dem prez didn't pay for what they spent the first 2 years when they had absolute control?  and, explain to me why the spending keeps going on at a pace we have never seen when they can't pay for it?

please define fair share.

do you believe that if they took more in taxes they would use it to pay for what they have already done, or do you think they will just keep spending at the current rate + any extra they take in?

please explain how the GOP, which holds 1/2 of 1/2 of congress is doing all this spending? 

i'll give you that we are, and have been, spending to much, but it is laughable, given what this admin has done, to blame where we currently stand on the GOP. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
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« Reply #104 on: February 09, 2012, 10:03:56 PM »

sorry. missed your last question.  the last time the GOP paid for what it spent was the republican congress under clinton.  it was a large part of the reason clinton had a projected (not realized) surplus.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
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« Reply #105 on: February 09, 2012, 10:33:28 PM »

""It’s simple accounting, Government needs to pay for what it spends? ""

I hope you are kidding.

It should read..... It's simple accounting, Government needs to spend only what it is taking in.

You could triple the taxes and those idiots would still spend twice what is taken in.

The GOP?? The dems have spent more in the last 3 years than all the GOP admins in history, total..
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #106 on: February 09, 2012, 11:13:19 PM »

BlueBee, you are wasting your time! There are people on this post who will not be happy until America looks like a Charles Dickens novel.
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Live long and prosper!
kathyp
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« Reply #107 on: February 09, 2012, 11:48:09 PM »

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There are people on this post who will not be happy until America looks like a Charles Dickens novel.

i love comments like that.  what do you think we are currently heading toward?  lets say obama got another 4 years and could do as he pleased.  what "improvements" do you think he'd make?  do you believe he would ever get spending under control?  i'd love to know what you think is so great about where we are headed right now!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #108 on: February 10, 2012, 06:46:26 AM »

Didn't want to retype this all over again, but letting those who benefit the most off the hook, thereby leaving our 'collective' debt to future generations is outrageous to say the least.  I'm so tired of hearing these misguided souls rail against increased taxes while at the same time complaining about the debt 'we' are going to leave to our grandkids.  Stop all the whining (which only serves those on top in avoiding 'their' share of 'our' debt) and just pay the debt back now, before more of our kids inherit it, or maybe that's the point.  What's so difficult about understanding that?
None of us should ever doubt that the goal of 'keeping us divided' is key to keeping those most powerful among us permanently in power and in control of us.

We should never be fooled by the rhetoric we hear (because it sounds good).  Its how we are manipulated into 'blindly' doing the bidding of others against our own best interests.  An old tactic used for centuries by ruling elites.

We must always be diligent in our investigations, research and demands for TRUTH, always.  Even when it takes us to places that may be uncomfortable or challenging to previously held beliefs.  To do otherwise is nonhuman IMO, we may as well be cattle.

KNOW THIS TRUTH; This Country will NEVER have small government or a simple (or fair) tax system as long as Congress (all sides) and its real controllers (not us) depend on having a BIG Government w/ a complex tax system, regardless of what any of them say.  

The current GOP candidates or any politician really, who claims otherwise is very likely an entrenched part of the problem and also very likely benefiting from protecting the corrupt system their constituents sent them to DC to fix, not become a part of, IMO, just mine again Smiley.

Under the current corrupt system It is an essential part of the process to keep things as confusing (for the masses) as possible.  Our elected (pretty much all of them in DC) depend on the ability to persuade BIG checks out of those who have those kinds of dollars, and that's not 'we the people' by any stretch.  

Oh, don't get me wrong, they like our money, we the people just can't compete w/ the 'masters' dollars.

To change this broken system it will never be enough to just change parties or even candidates in some manipulated preordained election.  

Make no mistake my friends (and perceived enemies) grin These things are all selected for us long before we ever have a chance to voice an opinion.  It has become very much the 'American' way.

thomas
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iddee
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« Reply #109 on: February 10, 2012, 09:20:30 AM »

So you send your son to college. His expenses are 1000 dollars a week. The first week, he spends 2000, so you increase his allowance to 2000 a week. The third week he spends 3000, so you increase his allowance to 3000. The college is still the same cost for books and tuition, so where is the money going?

Tell me you don't care. Tell me you are going to keep increasing his allowance and never ask him to slow down on the spending.

Come on, tell me...........
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
kathyp
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« Reply #110 on: February 10, 2012, 10:20:00 AM »

i am all for reducing the debt.  first, before you tell me you want more of my money, reduce the deficit.  the list of stupid spending under this admin gets longer and longer.  you want my money?  stop giving it away to little green crappy projects.  when we all see some responsibility in the spending/cutting, we might be interested in proposals to pay off what you have already done.

i don't believe for a second that this admin would put any extra revenue toward paying off debt.....maybe toward paying of unions!!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #111 on: February 10, 2012, 11:24:56 AM »

So you send your son to college. His expenses are 1000 dollars a week. The first week, he spends 2000, so you increase his allowance to 2000 a week. The third week he spends 3000, so you increase his allowance to 3000. The college is still the same cost for books and tuition, so where is the money going?

Tell me you don't care. Tell me you are going to keep increasing his allowance and never ask him to slow down on the spending.

Come on, tell me...........

Wow iddee, your kids really got it made  Wink

The two of my sons that did attend college both put themselves through with no 'allowance' from me, just like I had to, by working hard.  The only difference being, they've got considerably more debt to repay (YEARS!) and mine was paid off about the time I graduated, thanks to a more inclusive GI Bill, reasonable tuition's and working full time throughout, taking me 9 years to earn a Masters going part time, most of the time. 

This indebtedness that we now saddle our children with at the very 'beginning' of their lives (when they should be saving for a house) can be directly related to the huge increase in a 'still' mostly unregulated 'privatized' education system that took off in the late 80's and continues today.  Many/most offer little or no accreditation for the education (?) provided, have unacceptable drop out rates (although the bankruptcy proof debt remains) and are in business solely to make profit for the Board and its Administrators, and that is exactly what they do.

If anyones paying like iddee is   Wink make sure the school isn't just some con game designed to look like an Institute of Higher Learning before writing a single check.


Kathyp; No one wants (or is even asking for) more of 'your' money.  It always seems to come back to that with you.  What's up w/ that?  Are you a secret million-aire?   grin  or what?

A growing number of us would simply like a more even playing field, one where when times are tough, they're tough for everyone. 

Why should the non-afflicted among us (the well-off) be the only 'class' of Americans not suffering the effects of a system they clearly created for themselves and clearly profit from, especially during hard times? 


thomas
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kathyp
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« Reply #112 on: February 10, 2012, 11:35:04 AM »

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A growing number of us would simply like a more even playing field, one where when times are tough, they're tough for everyone. 

fine, then tax the 47% who pay no federal tax and who suck up most of the resources.   
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
T Beek
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« Reply #113 on: February 10, 2012, 12:09:27 PM »

Really?  That's your solution?  I should have known  huh  You're getting kinda predictable kathyp.

And what will 'you' get from that 47% 'you' apparently hate so much and who have so little that 'you' want to tax?  More despair, homelessness, crime...etc.  Yeah we need more of that in the world.  rolleyes

But since they already have next to nothing, not very much in tax relief FOR YOU kathyp.

I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree if you think the poor are gonna save YOU  rolleyes, to think so is quite obtuse really.  Honestly, it makes little sense in the real world where most people live.  

You really do hate the poor, don't you?  Those government dependant  folks are enjoying too much of a free ride for you, heh?   But you seem to not care one bit if someone owns so much he has to hire a bunch of poor folks (for chump change) to keep track of it all and make it look pretty, right?

Personally, I've NEVER met a rich man yet who could (or would) work harder than I do, much less a 'nursing home' employee or other such 'work' yet we are suppose to just accept that the wealthy mans time is somehow more valuable?  Riiiiight?   You can believe that if you want to but don't expect the rest of the world to feel that way.  Like it or not we are our brothers keepers, and not just our RICH brothers  Wink

But You go girl, you keep all that up and you might become rich yourself someday, just keep on defending their rights, and maybe  huh  just maybe they'll let you into their club someday  rolleyes


But sincerely now,  "Be Careful" what you wish for, it may very well be coming your way 'if' we don't soon demand (by force if necessary) that the wealthy pay 'their way out of their mess.'  Oh yeah, its their mess too, so why exclude them?  Why?  WHY should they be let off the hook and why do some think its wise to do so?  Its beyond me that's for sure.  

And 'please' instead of the petty insults, lets have some RATIONAL explanations, debate and discussion instead of the usual write off when some are confronted with challenging opinions.  Can we?  Can we?  We shall see.

Drivers; Start your engines  grin

thomas
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 12:20:47 PM by T Beek » Logged

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BlueBee
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« Reply #114 on: February 10, 2012, 01:39:31 PM »

 applause applause applause  What Thomas said.
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kathyp
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« Reply #115 on: February 10, 2012, 01:46:37 PM »

speaking of being predictable!  i am curious why you think it's fair to take more from the producers and give it to the non-producers?  it's not about hate, but you all seem to be so much into what is "fair".....  our problem is that we have different definitions of fair.

you think it's fair for 1/2 the country to live off the other 1/2 and contribute nothing, while demanding ever more.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
cbuchh48
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« Reply #116 on: February 10, 2012, 01:54:48 PM »

 applause applause applause  What BlueBee said!
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cbuchh48
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« Reply #117 on: February 10, 2012, 01:57:05 PM »

What I think is fair is if the lower half could earn enough for their labors they wouldn't have to live off the other half.
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kathyp
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« Reply #118 on: February 10, 2012, 02:12:25 PM »

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What I think is fair is if the lower half could earn enough for their labors they wouldn't have to live off the other half.

how much would that be?  what is the end game? equality?  what is a fair wage?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
SEEYA
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« Reply #119 on: February 10, 2012, 02:39:47 PM »

>>fine, then tax the 47% who pay no federal tax and who suck up most of the resources.  

Better yet; bring back the county workhouses and poor farms!  rolleyes

Crap - Looks like I can't take my own advice
>>BlueBee, you are wasting your time! beat a dead horse
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Live long and prosper!
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