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Author Topic: The 99%  (Read 16305 times)
Scadsobees
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« on: November 09, 2011, 01:22:33 PM »

I keep seeing videos of people chanting "We are the 99%".

A lot of the videos are from conservative media.  So to be fair, I went over to cnn.com and watched a bunch of videos there.  Not much better.  Not at all. 
Warmed over hippies, sociologist majors, art majors, tattoos, piercings, dreadlocks, black fists, people demanding that the government pay for their stuff, whether it be home repairs, student loans, healthcare. Young people with nothing better to do expecting to be taken care of, and ne'er-do-wells. Disgusting!

I think I finally figured out what that means.  Either they are 99% of the dregs of society gathered togather, or they mean that 99% of the people gathered are the dregs, and 1% of the people gathering are ok.

Whatever they mean, I can tell you I'm not part of that "99%".  I slogged my way through college, working part time through college while also raising my kids, made loan repayment a priority and paid them off in a couple of years, and now am the sole wage earner with 5 kids, earning much less than 100k and paying private christian tuition for my kids.

<Disclaimer: I have no problem with any college majors.  If you enjoy art, I'd encourage you to be an art major.  But do it because you enjoy it, not because you expect anybody, much less the government to give you a job.>

<Disclaimer2: I may agree with a couple of things that they are saying, some of the things about banks and corporations, it doesn't make the disgust of them any less>

<Disclaimer3: I know this may not be friendly and conducive to a social forum, and if not, feel free to delete it, I will happily abide by the rules because I'm just that way and...well...I'm not part of that 99%.  I just am so disgusted I just can't keep quiet anymore.>
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 01:55:45 PM »

Well honestly the biggest problem with these 99% or the wall street protesters is they have a bunch of good ideas lumped in with a bunch of bad ones.  The biggest things they need to be protesting is bank bailouts, corprate bailouts, and the regulations that keep both at the top of the hill.  Solve these and your going to see the mood change as finally big corperations will have to compete to stay big and profitable allowing these people the hope they need to be a productive member of society.  Right now to get into business for yourself it's like looking up at Mt. Everest.  They aren't all bad I don't think it's just that they have lost hope.
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kathyp
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 02:16:34 PM »

that, and they are protesting in the wrong place.  they are right to protest crony capitalism, but the problem begins with government.  when business can, or feels they must, go to government for the solution to their problems, it's government that is at fault.  they created the climate that brings business to them.  government is also responsible for getting into the business of picking winners and losers in the market.

both parties have been guilty of this.  both need to stop.  i don't think it has ever been quite as bad as it is now, but it's not a new thing.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 02:27:32 PM »

Missed that thought Kathy.  It was there just didn't make it in my post these guys start causing problems down in DC and I can get even more behind them.  Then move to state capitols and then county seats so on and so forth.  It's everyday business from top to bottom I know my county government gave 150,000 back in 2000 to have Verisign look at opening a branch here.  Wish someone would pay me that kind of money to look and think about opening a business in a community.  BTW all they did was look and left.
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Vibe
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 02:44:34 PM »

Check out the "We are the 53%" movement - which is in direct contrast.
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 07:53:52 PM »

Check out the "We are the 53%" movement - which is in direct contrast.


+1

here's the link
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/26/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_backlash/index.htm
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2011, 08:44:55 AM »

When the 47% overtake the 53% it is all over. 

I agree completely about it is time for the movement to leave the streets.  They are hurting businesses in the locations of the 'encampments', the nnocent people who work hard and probably are part of the 53%.  The 99% sure as hell does not include me.  I consider them all just too lazy to look hard for work.  I keep hearing you just do online applications now-a-days.  Somehow I just don't believe pounding the hoofs on the street looking for a job will have any less results than an anonymous online application.  It has been my experience in life that you get hired when you present at the right time with the right abilities. 

These anal pores camping out wanting handouts are no different than the troll on the street corner with signs "Anything helps"  Notice you don't see signs that say "Will work for food" like I used to see a decade ago.  It is all about gimmie, handouts, freebies, and entitlement.

And then the movement really has no specific goal.  They are against rich people just because they are rich (financially), they are against the caucasian person who has a job, they are against huge business ( and that one needs to be clarified to those that don't pay taxes) and so on.  They speak of plain flat socialistic society.  We have made a grave mistake in the way we have raised the last generation. (I am in the end of the Baby Boomers bunch)  When we grew up we feared socialism, now look at the current generations.
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kathyp
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2011, 10:24:32 AM »

jack, you have seen what they are doing in portland? 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 11:34:49 AM »

I talked with a (young) guy yesterday.  He said that he had been out of work since June....of 2010.  And was still drawing an unemployment check.  He had been laid off from one of our southern automaker "satellite" factories.  His entire department had been laid off because that aspect of the factory when to a different location/factory.  I asked him about other job opportunities and he said he was trying to stay "in my industry field".  Say what?  A job's a job, man, whether in "your industry field" or elsewhere...and there's no new "auto industry" factories popping up around here.  He did state that he could make more money drawing his unemployment than he could with any "local" jobs that he'd found.  rolleyes  He went on to state that he was "fighting" to get his job back...insinuating that the company was "wrong" in not hiring him back already.  I asked if any of the other workers had been re-hired and he said they hadn't been. ??  I guess the factory needs to rehire him and his fellow unemployed workers and let'em sweep the parking lot or something and then go out of business (and do away with the rest of the jobs) due to mismanagement???  Anyhow, he did state that he had gone to New Orleans and looked at some jobs and there were lots of them there...but they were in the construction industry and it was too far from his family.  My son-in-law works away from home for four weeks at a time...he and my daughter don't like it, but it pays the mortgage and puts food on the table for them and my two granddaughters. 

If people wanted to work there are jobs out there, it might not be their idea of a CEO position at Microsoft...but there's work.  There's just too much of an "I'm entitled" or "You owe me" or "That's below me" mentality out there.  A large portion of this country needs to get a grip on reality and get out of the purple haze that they're living in. 

I'm on the 53% side of things...and we don't burn vehicles, trash up parks, stop/hinder commerce, cause massive expenses for a needed police presence, or have violent tantrums in McDonald restaurants because they won't *give* us food.  The 99% does not exist...it is simply a red herring name for something else...any oak trees close by?

Ed
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2011, 12:00:54 PM »

think of all the industries that have changed or gone away over the history of the country.  if people did not adapt and learn new skills, there would be no progress. 

as my father tossed my lazy brother out the door, he said "starvation is a great motivator".  when my brother got tired of living in his car and flipping burgers, he got some skills.  he's now a 6 figure bum   grin
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2011, 03:02:15 PM »

Its seems our government is constantly suggesting that as they ship more and more jobs to Asia, that all we have to do is get “re-educated” for the new jobs of the future.  The problem is what jobs are left for our futures, your kid’s futures?  Yeah, give me a list.

You know it’s getting bad when the Republicans (Ron Paul) start suggesting it’s now the lazy college students fault for the high cost of college education!  It’s always the little guys fault in their minds.  The guys and gals with the least resources seem to always be the scapegoat.  

I think Michigan is the USAs canary in the coal mine.  There was an old saying, ‘as GM goes, so goes America’.  We have seen how GM has gone, it’s only a matter of time for the rest of the country.  If the rest of you want to get a preview of your future and your kids future, pay a visit to Flint, Saginaw, or Detroit sometime.  You might want to add some armor to the family vehicle for the tour.
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2011, 03:11:02 PM »

Interesting...Michigan is one of the only states right now with any significant growth.  But yeah...Flint is dead.

As much as I dislike Ayn Rand and her philosophies, it is like an eerie replay of the story in her Atlas Shrugged book.
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Rick
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2011, 03:20:37 PM »

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Michigan is one of the only states right now with any significant growth
Hahaha, Scads, I know you have to be joking now!

If you’ve lived in this state for any period of time, you know how dismal the economy has been for years and years, if not decades!  Like after any war, there is a period of rebuilding and “growth”, but you’re still living in a war zone.

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Scadsobees
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2011, 03:53:44 PM »

I didn't say that Michigan is recovered.  rolleyes

I'm speaking of growth, the tendrils of green one sees in the landscape after a forest fire.  Growth not seen in too many other areas of the country yet, with the exception of North Dakota.

That is from a relative who works for a major north american lumber manufacturer. 

I don't have much good to say either about the blight known as the "east side".

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Rick
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2011, 05:10:45 PM »

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You know it’s getting bad when the Republicans (Ron Paul) start suggesting it’s now the lazy college students fault for the high cost of college education!


the cost of public college education has gone up 4 X the rate of inflation.  one of the biggest contributing factors?  public sector union pensions and benefit packages.

we also have made the mistake of insisting that in order to be successful, a child must go to college.  that's ridiculous.  we have tons of kids who'd rather be doing something else...and would be better at it, going to school on easy money, and coming out with degrees in basket weaving because the HAD to get the degree. 
business is a fault here also.  google was watching my brother for a couple of years, but didn't approach him until he had a degree.  the degree made no difference in his skill set, but that is their policy.  my son is military trained in his field and has a good job, but to advance, he has to get a degree.

in england, they begin to direct the kids toward fields in which they show aptitude.  that may be a field that requires a degree, but it may not be.  there is no insistence that everyone must go to university.

as for business going overseas, there are two main reasons they do that.  one is the cost of labor and the other is the cost of regulation.  if you want to expand and make money, you need to keep both costs down.  in an age of easy shipping, you can see why people would take their business to a place that doesn't have 20 paid vacations + 30 days, huge and eternal benefit packages, and union strikes when they don't get what they want.

we have been spoiled into thinking that we deserve cradle to grave "stuff" either from our government or our company and we throw hissy fits when we don't get our stuff, and our raise, and our health care........

there is no reason that we can't produce in this country, and we do.  we need to understand that like it or not, we are in a global competition for industry.  we can either compete or fail, but we have to make changes if we want to avoid failure.  this seems to be something that the southern states have figured out. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2011, 06:24:14 PM »

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the cost of public college education has gone up 4 X the rate of inflation.  one of the biggest contributing factors?  public sector union pensions and benefit packages.
Hmmm, you must not have watched the republican debate last night?  That is NOT what the Republicans claimed.  They say the problem is there are now more admins in higher education sucking away money than there are teachers.  That, and its all the students fault…of coarse.

Quote
but to advance, he has to get a degree.
All the jobs that don’t require advanced knowledge have been shipped to China.  For all the “reasons” you’ve stated.  This is the PROBLEM!  If you don’t get a degree here, there is no work for you.

Quote
we can either compete or fail
As Romney said, it’s hard to compete when China cheats!  Capitalism doesn’t win against cheaters.  Sorry to have to break that news.

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seems to be something that the southern states have figured out.
New Flints in the making.  Where did those textile jobs in NC go?  Where will those auto jobs be going?
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kathyp
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2011, 08:27:38 PM »

i did not watch the debates.  i would agree that admin costs are probably much higher than they ought to be.  that's probably true of many industries.

Quote
All the jobs that don’t require advanced knowledge have been shipped to China.  For all the “reasons” you’ve stated.  This is the PROBLEM!  If you don’t get a degree here, there is no work for you.

not so.  they were doing the work before.  they'll be doing the work after.  it's the promotions that require the degrees. 

we do have a problem with what china does with it's currency.  not much we can do about it because we owe them lots of money.  we also do a tremendous amount of trade with them...both ways.  the trade playing field would be more even without the currency manipulation but.....

lots of auto jobs going south.  textile jobs may not be a plentiful in the US as they used to be.  we import from a lot of 3rd and 2nd world countries that have textiles as a major export.  we also do not produce as much of the raw materials here.  where we used to be a heavy agro country, that is less true now.  so....we move on.  but to do that, we have to be willing to train in what is up and coming and we have to have a government that does not regulate each new idea into oblivion, or pick our industries for us. 

once again, we come to the major points.  get government the heck out of the way.  control costs.  check expectations.  BE WILLING TO CHANGE.  we have lost the will to take risk and embrace change.  how many people are sitting on their backsides collecting unemployment and waiting for something to open up for them.  they are not willing to move, reeducate, or take risk.  so much easier to cash the check.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2011, 08:41:36 AM »

My grandfather owned a small jewelry store in Boston, so in the family ephemera (which litters my house), there are some old promotional items for class ring companies and the like.

My favorites are the records....most of these are only pressed on one side, and they contain a motivational sales pep talk for the store owners...from the 40's or 50's.

One of the records talks about how one should strive (and should encourage their sales force to strive) to be in the top 10%...of everything....that this is the path to success.

I see a contrast here....the protesters proudly claiming their position as the 99% that are presumably under (and under the control of) the 1%.  This is not striving to do better.  This is telling everyone else they need to fix what they do.

When I used to drive alone more, I'd move the radio between NPR and conservative talk (Rush and locals).  One day Rush made a point that I thought was really worth repeating (I even quoted this in my talk at our treatment free conference this summer...Rush isn't a popular figure in such a group...I made the point first, then admitted where it came from).

Someone had called in and talked about "wanting to make a difference".  Rush's point was that this is backwards.  You cannot possibly have the skills, knowledge, experience to actually be effective in changing things if you have not already achieved personal excellence.

My guess is that this will eventually peter out...they are obviously trying to get beat up by police.  What I'm sure is happening is networking on a very intense scale...networks that I expect will organize over time...we will hear from them again.

deknow
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2011, 09:48:10 AM »

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Rush's point was that this is backwards.  You cannot possibly have the skills, knowledge, experience to actually be effective in changing things if you have not already achieved personal excellence.

excellent point.  poor people are the recipients of the generosity of the wealthy.  charities, philanthropies, scholarship funds, foundations, all started and maintained by people who have become successful and have chosen to help others. 

i'm looking at these idiots in the park and thinking that if they have the time to hang out there, they have the time to work a couple of jobs and pay off the student loans, support themselves, and do what we all did...work hard until we get that better life.
instead they seem to feel that they are owed that life and someone (we?)should hand it to them.

the Portland mayor just told the folks they have until Sunday to get out.  over 300,000 in police overtime.  damage to the parks, public restrooms, trees.  businesses that have been broken into.  one fire bomb and fires started.  theft. 
now the businesses are hiring extra security for Sunday and the police putting on extra people. 

the mayor plans to "handle this carefully"...this, after he gave a little speech about how he agrees with them but they had let a bad element into their (illegal) camp, so he had to kick them out.

what really happened?  the downtown businesses that PAY TAXES told him to either uphold the laws or they'd move across the river and abandon downtown.  the little pedifile is not running again, so what does he care?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2011, 09:49:21 AM »

Yes Kathy, been watching from afar and listening to my boy who has visited and has friends that work and go there and protest.   I am hearing both sides loud and clear, but these folks are destroying 2 parks, costing thousands to taxpayers....Last nights news figures the current cost to taxpayers is 336,500 (rounded).  Yesterday the mayor announced the deadline for them to leave.  Some are complying, some are talking violence.  What a great way to kill off their cause by using violence.  It will happen, unfortunately, I just hope no police or innocent people are injured in the melee to come.  This may set the stage for the rest of the country, as I think they will be the first to really have to work at evicting.

Those people do not see how they are taking from the 99%  Again, communism at it's utmost.  So sad to see all this happening.  I just hope my son stays away this weekend.
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