Too late to trap out?

[ShaneJ]

Hi again, Sorry for all my gibberish posts in this thread. I'm kind of using it as a scribble pad.

I've been thinking and reading more about these small bees. The bees that I trapped out in the first few days would of been the original swarm that moved into the wall. So could these small bees be because the swarm built a more natural size cell size in the wall?

[Intheswamp]

Interesting thought, Shane.  I'm sure that the natural comb could be a possibility as to why the young bees are smaller.  I wonder if the reduced number of nurse bees on the brood would have an effect?...but would have these young bees already have been capped when the older bees were trapped out?

I noticed a beetle around the exit at about the 1:47-1:52 mark in the video.

Very interesting situation that you have.
Ed

[Robo]

So could these small bees be because the swarm built a more natural size cell size in the wall?

It could be a sign that they swarmed from a feral colony.  It takes more than one generation of free comb building to get a noticeable cell size difference.   

[ShaneJ]

Interesting thought, Shane.  I'm sure that the natural comb could be a possibility as to why the young bees are smaller.  I wonder if the reduced number of nurse bees on the brood would have an effect?...but would have these young bees already have been capped when the older bees were trapped out?

I did wonder if the lack of nurse bees feeding the brood would mean smaller bees.

I noticed a beetle around the exit at about the 1:47-1:52 mark in the video.

Nice spot. I looked at the original larger/higher quality video and its just an ant  There are beetles in the trap box though.

Very interesting situation that you have.
Ed

I'm glad its as entertaining to others as it is to me.

[ShaneJ]

So could these small bees be because the swarm built a more natural size cell size in the wall?

It could be a sign that they swarmed from a feral colony.  It takes more than one generation of free comb building to get a noticeable cell size difference.  

If they had swarmed from a feral colony wouldn't the original bees be small also?

[Tommyt]

Yes I would say an original Feral swarm would be small also
But I'm still in the MBush Learning league
 
Tommyt

[iddee]

Hey Shane, it's time for an update.

[ShaneJ]

You are right, sorry about that. been very busy here. I'll try and get over there later on today. What would you like me to get an update on? It hasn't been long enough for a new queen to have hatched in the trap box yet so I don't think I should try inspecting any frames in that.
I could possibly try removing the cone again.

[iddee]

You set the trap Nov. 4. The new queen should have emerged on Nov. 16 or 17. She could start laying anytime after Yesterday. It could be as late as Dec. 5 before the first eggs.

[ShaneJ]

I thought it was 16 days before a queen hatches?

[Intheswamp]

Three days for the egg to hatch.  Workers create new queen from larvae 1-3 days old.  Figuring 16 or 17 days for a queen to go from egg to emergence figure that the queen could actually have emerged sometime between the 14th and 17th....egg/larva age being the main variable.  Figuring 16 days for queen emergence and starting on the 4th with a two day old larva I come up with a queen emerging on the 15th.

I know I'm messing up somewhere.... 

Ed

[Intheswamp]

Hopefully I'm using the correct figures and the calculations below aren't too confusing.  Dave Cushman stated that egg hatching is normally 72 hours but that it can be from 2 days to 6 days...depending on weather and probably other conditions.   I may be way off base on my calculations so take them with a big pinch of salt.   Ed

4   Day of month
-3  Egg to "hatch"
-1  1 day old larvae used on 4th
16  Days to maturity
---
16th Queen emerges


4   Day of month
-3  Egg to "hatch"
-2  2 day old larvae used on 4th
16  Days to maturity
---
15th Queen emerges


4   Day of month
-3  Egg to "hatch"
-3  3 day old larvae used on 4th
16  Days to maturity
---
14th Queen emerges


4   Day of month
-3  Egg to "hatch"
-1  1 day old larvae used on 4th
17  Days to maturity
---
17th Queen emerges


4   Day of month
-3  Egg to "hatch"
-2  2 day old larvae used on 4th
17  Days to maturity
---
16th Queen emerges


4   Day of month
-3  Egg to "hatch"
-3  3 day old larvae used on 4th
17  Days to maturity
---
15th Queen emerges

[ShaneJ]

Ahh yes, thank you. I didn't account for the fact the egg was already laid. 

[iddee]

"""Figuring 16 days for queen emergence and starting on the 4th with a two day old larva I come up with a queen emerging on the 15th."""


And I figured they would start with a 1 day old either the same day, "4th", or not realize they were queenless until the next day and start a 1 day old the next day. "5th", thus emerging on the 16th or 17th.

It is all variable, but you could have eggs now, or anytime in the next two weeks.

[ShaneJ]

I'll try and get over there shortly and pop out the frame I originally fitted with the eggs. Think I should try removing the cone again? I have been keeping an eye on the entrance to the wall but haven't see any more bees come out. Every now and then I do however see a single bee just inside the wall.

[iddee]

As said before, I would remove it and watch the bees going in.

No pollen, leave it off.

Pollen going in, put it back on.

[ShaneJ]

Hi guys, here is a video from today:

Trap out - Day 18 Trap box inspection

[iddee]

#1.. I have no sound on my computer, so I need typed words.

From watching in silence, I can see you need another box on the hive. Also, when inspecting any hive, I highly recommend removing an outside frame, then moving each frame to the side a bit before lifting. It keeps from rolling the bees, making them mad, maybe killing or injuring a few, possibly even the queen.

[oblib]

yeah I was thinking another box too, they gonna want to swarm before you finish the trap out 

[ShaneJ]

#1.. I have no sound on my computer, so I need typed words.

  Maybe I'll send you some speakers to thank you for your help with this trap out.

From watching in silence, I can see you need another box on the hive. Also, when inspecting any hive, I highly recommend removing an outside frame, then moving each frame to the side a bit before lifting. It keeps from rolling the bees, making them mad, maybe killing or injuring a few, possibly even the queen.

Another box? Already? Thats going to make it very very awkward to move when the job is complete 

Thank you for the tip remove an outta frame first. I'll try that next time. Do you have any tips for replacing the lid?