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Author Topic: Too late to trap out?  (Read 9863 times)
ShaneJ
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« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2011, 09:13:50 AM »

I haven't seen any bees leaving the cone at all the last few days. I can see 3-4 bees inside the cone on the entrance to the wall but in the time I watch they they don't seem to move from the entrance.

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Shane
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« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2011, 09:19:58 AM »

Newly assigned guard bees from the remnant left inside the wall?
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ShaneJ
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« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2011, 09:36:42 AM »

One one of the queen cells I noticed worker bees with their heads going into it. Could they of been feeding a lava?
yes

Quote
What do the queen cells look like if the original queen was in there and destroyed them?
If the workers destroy them they would be completely torn down (gone).  Queens will rip open the side of a sealed queen cell and kill the other queen.  Looks like a hole in the side of a peanut.

Quote
I didn't see any eggs on the frame I looked at, it seemed to be all food stores so I am not sure there is a queen in there, Would the queen wait to lay until all the foundations are drawn?
No, a queen will start laying as soon as the foundation is started to be drawn out.  The bees will continue to draw out the comb around the egg/larvae as it grows.

From what you say/show,  I would say you do not have the queen, which is most common in a trap out that has been there more than a week or so.   Either she absconded or is still in the wall with house bees.   Are you see any bees leaving the cone, or has all activity stopped?


Thanks for this information by the way. Lots to remember.
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Shane
ShaneJ
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« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2011, 09:40:15 AM »

Newly assigned guard bees from the remnant left inside the wall?

Very possible. At this point I am not sure if I should remove the cone. On one hand I am thinking I should wait a few more days but on the other I am concerned about SHB destroying the hive in the wall and making a mess. I guess I could remove the cone and see what happens. If bees start taking pollen etc in the wall I could put the cone back. Sound like a plan?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 10:02:20 AM by ShaneJ » Logged

Shane
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« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2011, 10:08:56 AM »

I imagine iddee will respond shortly with the right info. Smiley

In my feeble, unexperienced mind I would go ahead and remove the cone.  As you stated, the issue the beetles making a mess of the hive...lots of difference between some empty comb remaining in the wall and a couple of gallons of fermenting honey.  tongue    There appears to be no more appreciable number of bees exiting from the wall and since the bees in the catch box are already working with some queen cells I would think they would start robbing the hive in the wall in short order.  Take the cone off, rub a little honey on the entrance and see what happens.

Naturally, all disclaimers apply because I have no idea what I'm talking about.  grin

Best wishes,
Ed
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American blood spilled to protect the freedom and peace of people all over the world.  320,000 USA casualties in WWI, 1,076,000 USA casualties in WWII, 128,000 USA casualties in the Korean War, 211,000 casualties in the Vietnam "conflict", 57,000 USA casualties in "War on Terror".  Benghazi, Libya, 13 USA casualties. These figures don't include 70,000 MIA.  But, the leaders of one political party of the United States of America continue to make the statement..."What difference does it make?".

"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."..."The press is our chief ideological weapon." - Nikita Khrushchev
ShaneJ
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« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2011, 10:25:24 AM »

Yes I must stay focused and remember that the number one goal is to remove the bees from the wall without leaving a slimy mess behind. Receiving a new hive at the end is just a bonus.

Unless the more experienced guys say other wise, I'll try removing the cone tomorrow and see what happens.
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Shane
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« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2011, 10:43:50 AM »

 I think? ? and thats a BIG think
your original Queen may still be in the hive
If she is they will begin to rebuild as soon as the cone
is removed  huh
How many days total from the setting of the cone
If it is only 9 days or so you are way early
 
I'd wait for now till Iddee/Hardwood or others post up

Tommyt
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iddee
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« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2011, 11:31:40 AM »

For a normal hive, yes, it is way to early. The time this hive has been there is unknown. It could be a very new swarm. The number of bees exiting the first 3 days was very high. Too high for a normal trap out. I think, tho not sure, that the queen has left the house. Whether she is in the box or not is unknown.

I would remove the cone and watch for pollen going in. Hopefully, the box bees will rob the house out and remove any bees that may still be there. If not, the cone can be replaced.

Remember, the trap out method is still new and experimental. Each one teaches us a little more. As said above, thanks for the thread. It is enlightening to all of us.
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« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2011, 12:28:11 PM »

Based on your original post, I'd guess that the hive was in there around 2 weeks?

If so, they have big white wax combs, a little brood and a little pollen/honey.  I don't think that the SHB can make too big of a mess with that. 

I agree that they are most likely all out of the wall, but I'd give them a little bit more time with the cone on, just to be sure, I don't think that that will hurt.  Personally I'd rather take the chance of a few SHB in there rather than the chance that the bees would move back in.

Rick
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ShaneJ
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« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2011, 08:36:46 PM »

Hi guys, I decided to remove the cone. I have been watching it for an hour after removing the cone. I must its very boring Undecided

There are still a handful of bees in the wall and they are guarding the entrance well not letting any of the foragers in. I'm now unsure what to do? Should I leave the cone off and keep watch to make sure no pollen goes in and hope the forager bees over power those guards?

What are the guard bees guarding? Just the remnant of the colony or possibly the original queen? When do the guards stop guarding?
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Shane
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« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2011, 08:53:14 PM »

Do you have any bee quick? A few drops of that in the hole may tell you how many are left. Or just rub a little honey around the hole and see if it will get the robbing started. I would wait until bees start going in and out. Then look for pollen.
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« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2011, 09:15:23 PM »

The fact that the foragers are returning to the old entrance says they haven't forgotten or abandoned it and possibly that there is something worth returning too.   A well laden forager will be more readily permitted than an unladen bee trying to rob.    Any short term trap out that I have done,  they have all left.    I'm thinking their is still brood, food and perhaps the queen still in there.   Lets face it,  a established colony doesn't abscond in a week of no incoming food.   Bad weather can make them go a longer stretch than that.

I wouldn't have removed the cone yet,  but that is just my thinking.  Looking forward to hearing what happens.
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ShaneJ
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« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2011, 09:38:14 PM »

At this point only a few foragers have gone to the wall entrance. I did put a dab of honey on the entrance to the wall to try and entice them to rob it but it didn't work. The honey brought out bees from the wall to clean up.
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Shane
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« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2011, 10:05:35 PM »

At this point only a few foragers have gone to the wall entrance..
I would replace the cone
 A few foragers may blossom into many,many more shocked


tommyt
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ShaneJ
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« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2011, 10:25:24 PM »

I have put the cone back. The fact that nothing exciting was happing was what put me off. Every now and then a forager(a bee from the trap box would check out the entrance in the wall but would be chased off by the guards. Nothing else at all was happening. No bees from the wall we flying off looking for pollen etc
I'll leave the cone on for another few days and see what happens. It would be nice to get those guard bees out of the wall.
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Shane
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« Reply #75 on: November 11, 2011, 10:44:16 PM »

I was wondering if there was a way to coax a few more bees out of the wall so I put a few dabs on honey on the board around the cone. Within a minute some very small worker bees came out of the wall, worked their way out the cone and went straight to the honey. A minute or so later, a very large drone exited the cone followed gradually by a few more vary large drones. One or two of them flew around the cone and around the trap box and the rest flew off somewhere.
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Shane
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« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2011, 09:44:48 AM »

There's more than likely a small amount of brood in there that there are a few bees left tending.  They won't leave till either the food is all gone or the brood is hatched.  Some of the nurse bees are probably turning into foragers if honey is getting low, and if the queen left they'll try raising another.   They probably wouldn't survive, but not worth the chance at this point...

I don't know how many are left, but I think you might be surprised at how many bees could still be in there.  The nurse bees and many of the drones will often stay in the hive for a while after the foragers are gone.  They'll trickle out as the brood dies and the stores dwindle.

Getting 90%+ of the bees out in 5 days is great, though!!
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Rick
ShaneJ
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« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2011, 06:59:35 PM »

Thank you mate.

I'll keep and eye on it over the next week and see what happens.
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Shane
ShaneJ
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« Reply #78 on: November 13, 2011, 12:48:11 AM »

Hey guys, I have a very exciting update. It seems a ton of newly hatched bees have left the wall.

I went over this afternoon at 3pm to checkout the situation and I found the front of the trap box covered in young bees. I don't believe there were that many capped brood cells on the frame I put in the box so these young bees must of come from in the wall.
Unfortunately my video camera had a flat battery when I went over so I don't have a video yet but I did get a few still pictures.

These young bees were on the side of the box:



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Shane
ShaneJ
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« Reply #79 on: November 13, 2011, 03:45:36 AM »

I have been thinking about these "young" bees and now I am mega confused. From what I understand about bees and from what I have been reading, bees don't actually grow, they become adult bees from lava. So this raises a question. Why all these small bees?

Here is a video from this afternoon.

Trap out - Day 9 Young bees
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Shane
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