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### Author Topic: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method  (Read 5410 times)

#### AliciaH

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##### Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« on: October 31, 2011, 02:51:32 PM »
Just came home from my state conference realizing (also from observation) that when and how I used my Hopguard is going to leave my bees with a mite load going into winter.  I need to treat them again and am considering using an oxalic acid drip, which I've never tried before.

I've read some of the threads here and also watched a video on applying the solution, but wanted to clarify that when you apply the solution to the seems (between the frames) that have bees, you are only applying from the top of the hive?  You don't need to take the boxes apart?

Also wanted to double check a recipe I found on-line (I'm bad with math and conversions, so this seemed simple enough I could handle it):
1 part by weight of Oxalic acid dihydrate
10 parts by weight water
10 parts by weight sugar

Thanks for the help!

#### rdy-b

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##### Re: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 07:14:07 PM »

#### AliciaH

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##### Re: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2011, 08:32:45 PM »
rdy-b:  These are great articles and answered many of my questions, so THANK YOU very much for the link!  Now I even know why cows don't eat the buttercups, which is kind of cool!

Another question, though:  When I move to the link with the table for measuring (The Learning Curve, Part III), there is a notation that says, "The concentrations in the first row are of actual oxalic acid content, not the dihydrate...."

But many of the articles talk about the dihydrate and it sounds like if I go buy wood bleach, that I will be buying a dihydrate.  How do I apply that to the formula?  For those of you who purchase this stuff (sorry, I haven't run to the store to look, yet), will there be a formula on the side of the container that tells me how strong the solution is?

#### rdy-b

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##### Re: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2011, 10:50:16 PM »
scroll down to the table-- http://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-learning-curve-part-3-the-natural-miticides/

Table of oxalic acid concentrations. OA crystals (common oxalic acid dehydrate, sold as wood bleach) must be measured by weight. Sucrose is table sugar, which may be measured by either weight or volume. The concentrations in the first row are of actual oxalic acid content, not the dehydrate (note that 35g OA crystals in a liter of syrup would give a 3.5% w:w solution, but a 2.5% w:v). You do not need to adjust the formulas if you are using regular wood bleach (oxalic acid dehydrate).

He is pointing out the difference in how solution can be measured(-w-v ) ( w-w) -weight to weight--or weight to volume
and he has done the calculating for you-RDY-B
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 02:26:34 AM by rdy-b »

#### Katharina

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##### Re: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2011, 12:12:16 PM »
I'm quite happy with hopguard, but you have to use it weekly for 3 weeks in a row.  The problem is that the strips dry up after a week and don't get the capped brood.  Another problem is that my bees take the strips apart and they are gone after 10 days.  So I started to add strips every week for 3 weeks in a row.  It works great that way, because now you are getting the hatching brood as well.  Using it once as directed is just useless.  It does a knock down, but not much more.  The 3 week treatment works.  You can also use a higher dose without any negative effects.  I use 8 frame hives and put in 2 strips per box, which is higher then they intended.  Overall the bees seem to be happy with the product and are doing well.
Katharina - hobby beekeeper and Saxony duck breeder
I also import German gift items at http://www.germanplaza.com
Klamath Basin Beekeepers Association in Oregon  http://www.klamathbeekeepers.org

#### mgencunal

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##### Re: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2011, 07:50:18 AM »
I'm using organic acids in the struggle for varroa and this season I developed their own special devices Oxalic acid (Oxalic acid vaporizer) impose a vaporizing.

Making sure the application using the gas mask.

Ease of implementation beautiful, the application time is too short.

Vrroa'ya impact and implementation results are excellent.

As far as I have followed this method was of interest than the United States.

#### AliciaH

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##### Re: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2011, 03:57:58 PM »
Hopguard was discussed at our state convention and confirms what Katharina says -- repeat the treatments every week for 3 weeks.  It was also stressed very highly that another variable is the temperature and how fast the strips dry out.  In short, if the weather is too warm, the strips might dry out faster than they are effective.  And if you have hygienic bees, then the strips might not be in the hive for the time needed, either.

I have no doubt that if you keep an eye on all the variables that Hopguard works just fine.  But for me, with 25 hives, it's a matter of math:  25 hives x 4 strips x 3 applications = 300 strips.  At 50 strips to a package, that's \$180 for one treatment series, plus all the time it takes to get into all the hives every 7 days.  Or more, depending on the temperature and hygienic nature of my bees.

I miss my formic acid pads, which had the added benefit of taking care of the tracheal mites.

Regardless, this is making me branch out to unfamiliar waters and try something new (for me).  I am looking forward to how beautiful my hives will be once I've bleached them!   ;)

#### mgencunal

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##### Re: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2011, 04:15:36 AM »
Turkey in the struggle for varroa, organic acids with chemical drugs became available.

I'm using three years of formic acid and oxalic acid, no loss of colony not live.

Turkey is entering the winter season, oxalic acid is the time of the application.

I made 3 weeks before the first application.

These days more will make an application.

In February, the application will last.

#### Finski

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##### Re: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2011, 01:29:03 AM »
.
Recipe:
have a digital kitchen balance, accuracy 1 g

100 g water
100 g  sugar
7.5 g oxalic .........mix

that  is for 3 two box hive and for 5 one box hive.

if you have one box full of bees, give max 40 ml stuff. 4  ml into each seam of frames.

If the winter gang is in two boxes, give max 50 ml,  5 ml into each seam.

It takes 3 weeks when mites fall down. They start to drop couple of days after treatment.

Remember, to broodless  hive. If there only few brood, you may take them off.

.
Language barrier NOT included

#### mgencunal

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##### Re: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2011, 05:35:01 PM »
The colonies have no puppies currently closed.

Liquid distilling method can be applied, but I find a more practical method of evaporation of oxalic acid

Why I do struggle with the varroa oxalic acid vapor, take this cold weather without wetting the successful results.

Own design, six-beam apparatus using a turntable.

Three years, not live colony loss.

#### Finski

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##### Re: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2011, 06:10:33 PM »
The colonies have no puppies currently closed.

Liquid distilling method can be applied, but I find a more practical method of evaporation of oxalic acid

Why I do struggle with the varroa oxalic acid vapor, take this cold weather without wetting the successful results.

Own design, six-beam apparatus using a turntable.

Three years, not live colony loss.

vapour method  is 15 years old method (at least) and trickling is 5 years old. That is the difference.

If you have a brood brake in your hives, trickling takes 20 seconds to do it. It is absoltely the best method in cold winter area. If the hive has brood, it does not help.

.
Language barrier NOT included

#### mgencunal

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##### Re: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2011, 05:34:36 AM »
Oxalic acid, steam application, personal safety measures come after me, easier and more practical.

Entrance hole to open up a cold in the application do bee hives.

This issue of Uludag University, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Center of Beekeeping Research and Development work done by academics, there was also great.

Much less than the unit cost per bit in the fight against Varroa and effective method.

#### AliciaH

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##### Re: Disappointed w/Hopguard - Need Clarification on Oxylic Acid Method
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2011, 11:23:16 AM »
Well, I dripped my hives yesterday!  Since I've never been in my hives at this time of year before, it was fun to have the OA as an excuse to peak and see where everyone was at.  I was pleased by the population in several of my boxes, most were about what I was expecting (again, good, I think), and there was only one that has a smaller population than I'd like.  I don't have great expectations for them.

Finski, thank you for your constant reminders about not overcomplicating your recipe: 100 grams sugar, 100 grams water, 7.5 grams OA!  Because, of course, I tried to find a conversion for grams to cups because I was making more than one batch.  But when I got done putting the water in the pot, I thought about your advice and measured the water again on my kitchen scale.  The weight was more than it should have been, so I reduced to what was proper.  Might not have done that if you weren't here drilling it into our heads!  Thanks, again!

Now I get to wait and see.  I don't have a good way to try a mite count as my SBB are self made and I can't get a sticky board under them without tilting the entire hive.  I also have entrance reducers permanently screwed onto the fronts so the skunks can't knock them off or the bees can't push them out.  I will keep an eye one them, though, as I check for food stores.  I have spacers on all my hives to allow for sugar feeding, so I can peak at them, if needed.