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Author Topic: Northern Beekeepers - do you all wrap your hives for winter?  (Read 4486 times)
derekm
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« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2011, 05:01:08 PM »

as posted elsewhere  - its from the paper:Endothermic heat production in honeybee winter clusters Anton Stabentheiner and others 2002.

"Southwick (1983, 1988) and Southwick and Heldmaier(1987) showed that the oxygen consumption of winter clustersincreases as the ambient temperature decreases. The increase is moderate between approximately +10°C and –5°C and issteep below approximately –5°C to –10°C. In swarm clusters,the steep increase has already started at +10°C (Heinrich,1981). Oxygen consumption also increases with decreasing cluster size (Southwick, 1985). Therefore, the frequency and
intensity of endothermic heat production have to be assumed to increase with decreasing ambient temperature and cluster size. On the other hand, we suggest that at higher ambienttemperatures large (swarm) clusters that have come to rest (e.g. at night) may be able to largely reduce endothermy (Heinrich,1981)."
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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
Michael Bush
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« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2011, 08:12:26 AM »

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#stopwrapping

    "Although we now and again have to put up with exceptionally severe winters even here in the south-west, we do not provide our colonies with any additional protection. We know that cold, even severe cold, does not harm colonies that are in good health. Indeed, cold seems to have a decided beneficial effect on bees."--Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey, Brother Adam

    "Nothing has been said of providing warmth to the colonies, by wrapping or packing hives or otherwise, and rightly so. If not properly done, wrapping or packing can be disastrous, creating what amounts to a damp tomb for the colony" --The How-To-Do-It book of Beekeeping, Richard Taylor
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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Finski
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« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2011, 12:12:19 PM »

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#stopwrapping

    "Although we now and again have to put up with exceptionally severe winters even here in the south-west, we do not provide our colonies w.........-Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey, Brother Adam

    "Nothing has been said of providing warmth to the colonies, by wrapping or packing hives or otherwise, and rightly so. If not properly done, wrapping or packing can be disastrous, creating what amounts to a damp tomb for the colony" --The How-To-Do-It book of Beekeeping, Richard Taylor


Brother Adam lived in the warmest place in England. The open sea and Gulf Stream surrounds the area. Winter is very short. Vegetation is exceptionally southern. Hivemaker -in beekeeping forum UK,  lives very near the Adam's place.

Yes, Brother Adam or any Englishmen are bad to talk about "severe winter". It means -10C in their categories. It is very rare that pond get ice cover at all in winter.
Snowfall may stay on ground couple of days.

But let's go to Canada. Our Teemu Selänne played in Winnibeg hockey And I have followed their winter. -40 C is not rare but in Finland it is.

I looked T Beek's winter figure. Their average winter is several degrees colder than we have in south Finland.

To survive over winter the big feature is that in England bees may come out every month to empty their gut.   Here bees stay inside 5 months and in cellar wintering from Ochtober up to early May. It makes 7 months.

If we think about nosema, it helps if bees can empty their cut or does it work in the gut 7 months.

Nosema is my biggest enemy in wintering. It does not kill but it spoils queens' ability to lay with full strength.

Just now in England bees carry pollen from ivy. Here last pollen loads came in two months ago. If hives are in forest pastures, the last pollen loads come in 3 months ago in the beginning of August.

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derekm
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« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2011, 01:30:25 PM »



"The bees have lived for millions of years with no heaters and no help"

and  I add without our hinderance and neglect...

A bees choice of tree cavity (seeley and morse 1976) means it has 8 times the insulation of a wooden beehive and is capable of keeping it all at a snug 18C when the outside temp is -10C...

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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
Finski
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« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2011, 05:27:20 PM »


   

"The bees have lived for millions of years with no heaters and no help"



and without  tar paper.....

a humans has lived 4 million years without electrict light and  without motorways....strange!

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rdy-b
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« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2011, 10:32:41 PM »

I looked T Beek's winter figure. Their average winter is several degrees colder than we have in south Finland.


  this i found very interesting so i looked at a site that speaks about the whether in finland
 jumping catfish--- dont look that bad Ehhh--

 http://goscandinavia.about.com/od/weatherinscandinavia/ss/weatherfinland.htm

 
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danno
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« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2011, 08:27:01 AM »

I looked T Beek's winter figure. Their average winter is several degrees colder than we have in south Finland.


  this i found very interesting so i looked at a site that speaks about the whether in finland
 jumping catfish--- dont look that bad Ehhh--

 http://goscandinavia.about.com/od/weatherinscandinavia/ss/weatherfinland.htm

 

These are our average monthly here in Michigan.  They are almost exactly the same as Finland

 
Michigan
             Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
Avg. High 28° 32° 42° 56° 67° 76° 81° 78° 70° 58° 46° 34°  
Avg. Low 16° 16° 24° 34° 44° 52° 57° 57° 50° 41° 32° 21°  
Finland
        Jan   Feb   Mar   Apr   May   Jun   Jul   Aug   Sep   Oct   Nov   Dec
High   27    25    32     43    57      66    72   68     59     46    37      30
Low    16    14    19     30    39      48    55   54     46     37    30      23

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T Beek
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« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2011, 09:37:29 AM »

Those look like 'State averages' rather than regional. 

Not to sure about Finland or Michigan but the difference in temps and/or weather between Milwaukee in the south and Hayward/Cable in the N/W part of Wisconsin is like two different worlds w/ two different ecosystems.  Our winters in Northwest Wisconsin are nearly two months longer than S/E Wisconsin as I'm sure Michigan's Upper Peninsula is considerably different when compared with Detroit. 

Funny the changes several hundred miles can make, much less thousands, which when fully considered can also make the differences in beekeeping methods, techniques and philosophy more palatable to other beekeepers.  We can only hope grin

IMO differences are a good thing Smiley

thomas
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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."
danno
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« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2011, 10:05:56 AM »

Those look like 'State averages' rather than regional. 

Not to sure about Finland or Michigan but the difference in temps and/or weather between Milwaukee in the south and Hayward/Cable in the N/W part of Wisconsin is like two different worlds w/ two different ecosystems.  Our winters in Northwest Wisconsin are nearly two months longer than S/E Wisconsin as I'm sure Michigan's Upper Peninsula is considerably different when compared with Detroit. 

Funny the changes several hundred miles can make, much less thousands, which when fully considered can also make the differences in beekeeping methods, techniques and philosophy more palatable to other beekeepers.  We can only hope grin

IMO differences are a good thing Smiley

thomas

Hayward  The muskie capital of the world.  I am originally from Wisc.   25 years in Fond du Lac, Antigo and Eagle River   You are right and I can tell you Wisc. is much colder that this side of the lake.  My Michigan temps are Ludington averages.   




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T Beek
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« Reply #49 on: November 02, 2011, 10:29:48 AM »

Nothing quite like a muskie (steak) caught through a hole in the ice.  Mmmm-mmm.

thomas
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derekm
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« Reply #50 on: November 02, 2011, 04:02:26 PM »

Those look like 'State averages' rather than regional. 

Not to sure about Finland or Michigan but the difference in temps and/or weather between Milwaukee in the south and Hayward/Cable in the N/W part of Wisconsin is like two different worlds w/ two different ecosystems.  Our winters in Northwest Wisconsin are nearly two months longer than S/E Wisconsin as I'm sure Michigan's Upper Peninsula is considerably different when compared with Detroit. 

Funny the changes several hundred miles can make, much less thousands, which when fully considered can also make the differences in beekeeping methods, techniques and philosophy more palatable to other beekeepers.  We can only hope grin

IMO differences are a good thing Smiley

thomas

4 miles can mean 1 metre rainfaill and 5C of temperature difference, in the UK.... I've lived in a place with heavy and snowfall only 4 miles from where its mostly dry and sunny and warm.... 4 miles away a damp mild wet winters day, where I was a metre of snow and freezing hard.
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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
Finski
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« Reply #51 on: November 02, 2011, 05:57:47 PM »

.
derekm , you mean 4 miles upwards. I have never thought that
K1 is in Britain?
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derekm
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« Reply #52 on: November 02, 2011, 06:36:39 PM »

.
derekm , you mean 4 miles upwards. I have never thought that
K1 is in Britain?
This was actually at  150m above the sea   but with 1000m mountain another 2 miles away. The strong  North westerly winds make the flat island of Anglesey mild and warm they hit the hills and go up chill and drop rain and  snow.  The bad weather piles up in front of the mountain, like the bow wave on a ship. You end up with the weather of much higher up on relatively low altitude hill...

K2? no Everest... They trained for the first successful ascent of Everest  within 5 miles of this location...
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If they increased energy bill for your home by a factor of 4.5 would you consider that cruel? If so why are you doing that to your bees?
c10250
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« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2011, 06:17:04 PM »

Here's a quote from the article that can be found at http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/solar_heating.htm

"We, therefore, studied the impact of solar heating by covering hives with Infra-Red Polyethylene (PE)-sheets during the winter . . . on:

hive temperature;
colony population;
spring honey production. "

"Brood area size in PE-covered hives increased by 59.2% (+ 2290 cm2) during the experimental period, but it went down by 8.4% (- 504 cm2) in non-covered hives (P=0.05). Adult bee population in PE-covered hives increased by 37.5% (3.8 occupied frames) during the winter, versus only 11.8% (1.8 occupied frames) in non-covered hives."


So, if you do insulate, you will wind up wil less stores being consumed (that die out might just have made it if you insulated), a higher internal hive temperature, more brood, faster increase in brood area size, faster colony population build-up, and more spring honey per colony. . .

Here's what I believe:

You may be able to get a hive through the winter without any insulation, however, if you insulate, they will not go through as much stores. That starved hive might just have made it.

Here's mine:

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Algonam
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« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2011, 06:42:10 PM »

Thank you all for your replies.....(I am the original poster)
Many opinions, and from what I am learning, many decisions on this subject are based on regional climate.
In my case I`ve decided to insulate the 2 hives with styrofoam on all 6 sides if possible and leave a small front entrance and a small breather hole near the cover. Front is facing East and prevailing winds come from the Northwest.
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Oh Canada!
blogniva
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« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2011, 07:01:11 AM »

 Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley
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