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Author Topic: queen excluder=honey excluder  (Read 2133 times)
mat
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« on: July 19, 2005, 11:44:07 AM »

I started this year just with foundation. When I had two deeps with bees and brood I put honey excluder and shallow super with foundation. They were very reluctant to go through the excluder. There was good nectar flow, they filled upper deep, may be half of super had some honey. I put another super with foundation on top. Deep was ready to extract, there was little bit in upper supper. I took honey from the deep a week ago. I put wet frames back, queen excluder and two shallows on top. I'm checking today:the frames I extracted are filled with nectar, there is no place for the queen in this deep, and no change in the suppers above the excluder!!! I decided to remove it. Do you think they will move the nectar from the deep to the shallows?
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mat
jgarzasr
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2005, 03:10:24 PM »

I checked on my bees yesterday - and I have to say the same.  Queen Excluder=honey excluder - I probably wont use the queen excluder again.  My upper deep is also now full of honey but the super I put on top about a week and half ago - is empty.  In fact the super I placed on top of the Queen excluder was comb foundation and it looks like they just chewed up the wax.  I removed the excluder and replaced the foundation w/ bees wax coated Plasticell.  Questoion to anyone out there.  Can I removed any of the frames of honey from the Deep? and if I do will the bees have time to build up enough honey for winter?  I believe there is still a good nectar flow for another 2 mo.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2005, 04:53:54 PM »

>Can I removed any of the frames of honey from the Deep?

Yes.  What you do with the honey depends on what you've already done.  If you haven't fed them anything and haven't used any chemicals then it's all good honey.  If you fed them Terramycin or Fumidil then it's only bee food.  If you had strips in, I wouldn't trust it because the wax absorbs the poisons.

>if I do will the bees have time to build up enough honey for winter?

I wouldn't take it all.  Just two or three frames is enough to open up the brood nest and get them started raising brood again.  They will clear more out if they need the room.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Phoenix
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2005, 04:57:50 PM »

Quote
Do you think they will move the nectar from the deep to the shallows?

Yes they will, but it will take a bit for them to draw the foundation first.

I would never recommend using an excluder on a colony trying to draw out foundation.  This is the biggest mistake I see for newcomers.  Let the queen lay where she may, the more brood that's reared the more workers you have to put to the task of drawing comb.  After the first year, if you insist on restricting the queen, turn a queen excluder 90 degrees so there is a gap along the walls for unrestricted traffic.  The workers will move up easier, and the queen will not venture that close to the exterior of the broodnest to find the open gap.

Quote
Can I removed any of the frames of honey from the Deep? and if I do will the bees have time to build up enough honey for winter?

Sure, but it's hard to say not knowing where you live.  We could give you a more proper response if we knew your geographic location.
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jgarzasr
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2005, 08:54:03 AM »

I live in Southern/Mid Michigan (Eaton Rapids, MI).  I know there is a good nectar flow going right now, especially the last couple weeks.   Sumac, Clover, Thistle, Mint, Perenials, and I live next to a soybean farm (not sure how much nectar comes from soybean).  But I would like to take only a few frames of honey - just enough for some personal stock and to taste.  I have the hives on my property that has about a 1/2 acre of Goldenrod - so I am hoping they will be able to build some winter stores off of that.  Looking into next year though - how do I get enough drawn foundation to make sure I get a good honey harvest.  Like I stated - I started this year - and only have the two deeps drawn.  I removed the excluder - so I am hoping they will start drawing out the super, and even better if I can get them to draw out two supers.  Also interested in starting a NUC from one of my hives they are both going pretty strong - will I have time to get another hive going before winter?  Or am I asking for too much?  I was going to ask this question later but I will throw it out now.  Should I requeen this fall?  My two hives were both started from packages this past spring.
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Michael Bush
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2005, 09:07:45 AM »

My main swarm prevention technique is to pull honey out of the brood nest and put in empty frames (yes empty.  no foundation or anything).  This gives the bees some comb to draw, the queen somewhere to lay (she will lay as soon as it's 1/4" deep) and unclogs the brood nest.
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Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
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"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
mat
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2005, 09:26:27 AM »

If you have strong hive and curent nectar flow, and honey is not your priority you may try puting super with foundation between the deeps.
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mat
MagicRay
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2005, 03:06:12 PM »

I have a top feeder setup and I just put in a honey super over the queen excluder.  My bees are still taking the sugar water, so I guess that will draw the bees physically at least into the honey frames.  Perhaps that will get them to draw some foundation in the honey super?
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