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Author Topic: Are you better off than you were four years ago?  (Read 4118 times)
Slowmodem
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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2011, 01:15:10 AM »

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Well, it took two helicopters and some highly trained guys to get UBL.  


i guess we knew where he was all along. we didn't have to hunt for him or anything ? i guess we can trust our good buddies in pakistan to just hand him over, huh ?

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The two wars were totally unnecessary and too many lives were lost for nothing.

unneccessary ? that depends on your point of view. we could easily avoid fighting in any war if we don't mind being taken over/ living in fear of constant attaacks, etc etc.

i'll agree that a lot of people died needlessly, but a lot of people also died needlessly on 9/11. should we adopt the whiny liberal mentality and just ignore it ? should we have our president chasing interns around the oval office and ignore people like osama building and arming his forces, and plotting against us, as opposed to doing his job and protecting our country. maybe we should lay off 2/3 of our miltary again ? how many times is that going to happen only to bite us in the butt later ?

and if you really want to get down to it, W didn't start the war in iraq either. you could say it began in Aug 1990 under daddy bush's watch, but it actually goes back further. W was just enforcing the UN mandated inspections iraq agreed to under their surrender agreement and did not live up to it. the real reason is (i suspect) we know they had wmd's even though they weren't found, we probably sold it to them. only they were supposed to use it against iran ( payback for the hostage thing ).


It's very sad when anyone dies.  Anywhere.  Iraq didn't attack us.  Afghanistan didn't attack us.  A bunch of thugs attacked us.  Charging into other countries because we are great and powerful doesn't make us right, it makes us a bully.  But, when we are trillions in debt, we don't need to be enriching Haliburton and the rest of the military-industrial complex.  We can't afford to try to change the world.  The world needs to fend for itself.  I don't consider that liberal, I consider that conservative.

If you believe the government's propaganda (like the WMDs) then that's ok.  Good luck with that.   The bottom line is that Iraq is about oil.  Libya is about oil.  Afghanistan is about lithium.
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Grandpa Jim
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« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2011, 02:21:13 AM »

On the original question.......NO! 

I am self employed and each year it gets harder just to keep our heads above water and if I go under those weeks of unemployment do not do me any good....I get NOTHING, my employees will.  My neck is out there because I am an entrepreneur.  My healthcare has more than doubled in the last four years and who knows what it will do in the next four (But that is too far out...just next year scares me!).  This whole economy  could be fixed without one dollar spent...Just get the H*** out of our way.  Stop putting roadblocks between us and success and the American people will create all the jobs needed.  They make it harder and harder to do business and easier and easier to sit on one's can and collect a free check.

So much money has to be spent today for nothing that it is holding small business back (Maybe that is the point??).  We purchased a small adjoining property to make our services more appealing, creating more income... (for you public sector people that is how we increase our income, so we can pay your wages).  Well, so far we have spent more than $6000. on meaningless paper work (that is it will not add one cent to the value of the property) and there will be more before we can use it.  Just one example...We had to remove asbestos that was embedded in cement, around a chimney (about a pound including the cement) from a house that was being torn down.  That bag of none hazardous asbestos and the house got put in the same landfill, most likely side by side.  That one pound bag cost me $1200 to put there, the whole house only cost me $1100 (the $1100 is not in that $6000. I actually got something for that money).

Jim
   
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JackM
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« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2011, 09:36:32 AM »

Not even close to as good as it was then. 
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« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2011, 10:45:08 AM »

about Teddy:  he saw Japan as a potential threat.  they had a huge military power and they were not minding their own business. they were, a many countries were at the time, imperialists....as we currently use the word.  Teddy was also concerned about immigration.  it was not just the Japanese, but all OTW.  in that, he was a bit racist, but that was pretty normal for the times.
i wouldn't necessarily hold that again Wilson either, except the Japanese had fought on the allied side during WW1 and Wilson was not only racist in how he dealt with them, but he was arrogant and dismissive....to the point that they walked out of the accords.  when the next war came and they had to choose sides, they picked Germany. 
it would be fair to say there were many reasons for that, but among them was the fact that they had been disrespected and ignored by those they'd fought with before. 
it is reasonable to think that other than the Paris accords, they had no beef with us and no reason to attack us.
 Japan was not an isolated country pre ww1 minding it's own business.  they had a huge military and all of their neighbors viewed them as a threat. 

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It's very sad when anyone dies.


no it's not.  some people need to die.
 
Quote
  Iraq didn't attack us.  Afghanistan didn't attack us.  A bunch of thugs attacked us.  Charging into other countries because we are great and powerful doesn't make us right, it makes us a bully.  But, when we are trillions in debt, we don't need to be enriching Haliburton and the rest of the military-industrial complex.  We can't afford to try to change the world.  The world needs to fend for itself.  I don't consider that liberal, I consider that conservative.


i love these liberal arguments.  on the one hand, they love the UN.  on the other, they don't want to do anything to enforce UN mandates.  yes, the first Iraq war was about oil.  so what?  between that action and 2003, there was a UN mandate in place which Iraq chose to ignore.  they also fired, on a regular basis, on our planes in the no fly zone. 
i have a lot of problems with what we did in '90-'91.  we should have finished the job.  we didn't.  the action ended with a cease fire.  there were conditions for that cease fire.  Iraq met none of them.  as a matter of fact, we did not fight a second war in Iraq, we ended the cease fire to finish what we should have done the first time...what Clinton should have done when Iraq ignored the conditions. 
for some lite reading  Wink  look at all the UN reports between '91 and 2003.  look at all the intel reports from many countries, same time period.  pick up a book called Secret History of the Iraq War
here is a site with an excerpt and link to the book, among other links:
http://freedomkeys.com/secrethistory.htm

 Halliburton is used by the military...Clinton used them a lot....because they are among the only companies that can do what they do, in a war zone.  the reason we need to hire civilians in war zone is that we have degraded our military to the point we don't have enough people to do everything.  Clinton made huge cuts and the results are now clear.  carter did the same thing.

  military-industrial complex
do you know where this term came from and the context in which it was used.  it's a great buzz term, but most don't understand what it meant and that it no longer has that meaning.

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The world needs to fend for itself.  I don't consider that liberal, I consider that conservative.


fine.  lets get those 47% off welfare, drill and mine our own stuff,  kick out everyone who is not here legally,  put up a really good missile defense system, and draw the covers over our head....maybe if we don't see them, they won't see us!  anything we can't do for ourselves, we can do without.


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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2011, 01:10:21 PM »

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If you believe the government's propaganda (like the WMDs) then that's ok.

if i tell you that the cops are going to search your house A MONTH FROM NOW, are you going to make sure there is nothing to find or will you just conduct business as usual ?

they had plenty of time to fly their planes to iran and empty their bank's cash ( American currency btw ) into a tractor trailer, is it not conceivable that they might have hid other things as well. sometimes you just know when people are guilty even if it can't be proven, but i guess you probably still think O.J. is innocent.

bottom line is we know what we sold them, even though the gov. can't admit to it. why did we do it ? why do you think afghanistan was able to kick the russians butts for 8 years ? that's right, us again. why ? just to be a thorn in russia's side. and now they're using those weapons against us.

Quote
It's very sad when anyone dies.  Anywhere.  Iraq didn't attack us.  Afghanistan didn't attack us.  A bunch of thugs attacked us.  Charging into other countries because we are great and powerful doesn't make us right, it makes us a bully.  But, when we are trillions in debt, we don't need to be enriching Haliburton and the rest of the military-industrial complex.  We can't afford to try to change the world.  The world needs to fend for itself.  I don't consider that liberal, I consider that conservative.

should we bury our heads in the sand like clinton did for us, that worked out well don't you think ? you can't ignore it and hope it goes away. war is evil but sometimes necessary.
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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2011, 02:25:55 PM »

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just to be a thorn in russia's side. and now they're using those weapons against us

we supplied the northern alliance.  the taliban is a creation of the Pakistani intelligence organization.  they were trained, funded, and armed by them as a proxy against India.  whatever might have been left from the 70s and 80s is most likely long gone.

we don't have to guess what Iraq had.  the UN had a long list of unaccounted for material.  some did come from us, but Iraq took the humanitarian aid and laundered it through the French banks.  with that money, they bought from France, Germany and Russia, all kinds of stuff that was prohibited.  the French made a lot of money on those deals.  that's what the oil for food scandal was all about.
remember that the "humanitarian" groups were active in trying to get sanctions lifted because the poor iraqi people were starving.  they were just about there.  if that had happened, Saddam would have had the people and the billions of dollars he needed to take up right where he had left off.  he was already funding Palestinian terrorist.  no reason to believe he would not have expanded bad to his old programs. we would also have had Iran and Iraq in a nuclear arms race.  good times, that!

of the two wars, i think iraq was a much better deal.  not a thing can be done with a country like Afghanistan.  we could have wiped out the taliban and been done.  Iraq is strategically place in the middle of all the trouble in that area.  perfect place to be...although we may throw that advantage away with this admin.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2011, 03:30:57 AM »

Eight years of W and his policies got us into this mess. I'm not going to vote for someone like minded to get us out.
It's a big mess to clean up, I'm sticking with Obama.
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« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2011, 07:02:10 AM »

""Eight years of W and his policies got us into this mess. I'm not going to vote for someone like minded to get us out.
It's a big mess to clean up, I'm sticking with Obama.""

 lau lau lau lau lau lau

That is so far out, it doesn't even even deserve a reply.
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« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2011, 09:33:00 AM »

So.. huh...Bush is responsible for ALL of his eight years!!  Obama takes responsibility for NONE of his own years!! Get some B***s and take responsibility for the decisions and policies YOUR ADMINISTRATION has made.
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« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2011, 09:56:41 AM »

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It's a big mess to clean up, I'm sticking with Obama.


don't be mean, guys.  it's a heck of a plan. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2011, 11:20:45 AM »

i'm just wondering what exactly obama has done, other than getting elected and accepting a nobel prize he did nothing to earn.
all the talk about change, change, change. the only change i've seen is going from bad to worse.

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« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2011, 05:35:13 PM »

I'm guessing some are better off than 4 years ago.
I wonder how this girl made out?
http://youtu.be/P36x8rTb3jI
She's probably one of the Wall Street protesters.
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« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2011, 05:39:20 PM »

We have 3 choices as I see things so far.  

1.  9 9 9
2.  The 1 Trillon in budget cuts
3.  Stay the current path

I say since we are all beekeepers which means we gamble by keeping our bees we put it all on the table and go with number 3.  Besides ya never know it might be easier to deal with then SHB.   evil
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« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2011, 06:30:37 PM »

NAH, O'bummer has me convinced. It's time for CHANGE.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2011, 03:32:56 PM »

If you mean by "better off"...  financially...  like some in here, I'm on a fixed income, investments down 15%, but my gold is double from when I purchased it... heck no I'm not better off...  so I'll answer this way, I am better off each day being one day closer to Heaven and I won't have to worry about none of this crap anymore...   I know there are bee's in Heaven 'cause there is honey!!!!  "You keep thinkin' Butch, that's what you're good at..."
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« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2011, 05:27:38 PM »

My husband brings home more income due to change in taxation under Obama--Thanks!

Overall, we're doing worse as we have paid out $11,000 in healthcare this year from deductibles, stop-gaps and premiums. I would say that the cost of health insurance and healthcare is our #1 struggle right now.

Personally, I would have been delighted if Obama had rebuilt the economy through huge public works projects like back in depression era days, only this time related to a "green" economy--like retrofitting public buildings, investing in wind and solar power, etc.
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« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2011, 06:12:48 PM »

Personally, I would have been delighted if Obama had rebuilt the economy through huge public works projects like back in depression era days, only this time related to a "green" economy--like retrofitting public buildings, investing in wind and solar power, etc.

you know that analysis of FDRs policies during the great depression says that it extended the depression?  did you miss the whole Solyndra, Evergreen Solar Inc, SpectraWatt, etc. thing?  it is not the job of the government to pick winners and losers in commerce.  this is the very crony capitalism that the OWS people are supposedly against.

there are green companies that are doing fine.  they are doing fine because the market feels that the product is good and affordable.  this is how products should come to us.  a company makes something that we want, and that we can afford.  the company does well.  the company fails to make a good product or market it well.  the company fails.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2011, 06:21:32 PM »

BTW...where do you think the money that the government spend to "rebuild the economy" comes from?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2011, 06:55:23 PM »

->looking for the smiley face eating popcorn emoticon<-
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« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2011, 07:07:28 PM »

 pop
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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