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Poll
Question: How do you feed during winter months?
Pail feeder - 2 (10.5%)
Top hive feeder - 4 (21.1%)
Entrance feeder - 0 (0%)
Frame feeder - 2 (10.5%)
Dry sugar - 11 (57.9%)
Total Voters: 19


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Author Topic: Winter feeding without honey stores  (Read 2921 times)
Shanevrr
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« on: October 16, 2011, 08:09:42 PM »

Im curious what beeks use for feeding that works in your climate.  And maybe your thoughts on why you do it that way vs. another.  Please dont reply if you use honey left in your supers.
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Shane C.
FRAMEshift
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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2011, 08:23:54 PM »

We use open feeding and top feeders in September/October and top off with dry sugar in late November.  We don't open the hives during the winter months.
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T Beek
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2011, 06:03:02 AM »

Me too.  I open feed syrup until day time temps stay below 55.  Then I may feed some more 'inside' until nights stay below freezing.  Then, upon winter wrap up (usually before Thanksgiving) I'll fill top ventilation/feed super with DRY sugar and hope for the best.  On a warm 32 F or above sunny day in mid or late December I might check (and fill) stores if needed.

(on those colonies with ample honey I still fill a top box w/ sugar 'just in case')

thomas
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Finski
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2011, 06:51:57 AM »

.
I feed at the beginning of September 20 kg sugar per hive as 2:1.

Open feeding is absolutely out of question and same with dry sugar. Dry sugar is not bees' food. They need water to use it.

That food lasts 9 months. After cleansing flight I even stores between hives untill in May nature gives nectar.  the honey store in hives is about 5 kg in brood frames.

Emergency feeding after Marsh if needed and mostly I take capped frames from other hives.

If the hive has brooding in December, nothing will save it.

One box beeding happens in 3 days and two box hive in one week. Capping takes a couple weeks more.
Too long feeding starts brooding.

.2 frames of pollen included to each hive.

i wonder what is so difficult in feeding sugar to bees.
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T Beek
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2011, 07:11:07 AM »

Different strokes for different folks Finsk (as old as you are you must have heard that one, heh?).  
We don't all live in Finland where bees and beekeepers have it sooooo hard.

That said, ALL Beekeeping is Local don't you think?  Kinda like politics Wink  

IMO; The teaching method of attacking or ridiculing those w/ differing opinions or viewpoints, besides just being rude, gives your own position little credibility or authority.  That's too bad for someone with so much to offer Cry.

All my bees get some dry sugar for winter, some take it, some don't.  All dependant on the individual colony.

thomas
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VolunteerK9
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2011, 08:16:39 AM »

If I had not of placed some dry sugar on the tops of a couple of my hives, they would have starved last January. No, it probably isnt the best means of feeding bees, but they are still alive today because I did it. I think dry sugar beats a snowball-plus you dont run the risk of a temperature change and syrup being forced out on top of your cluster.
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D Semple
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2011, 09:09:16 AM »


One box beeding happens in 3 days and two box hive in one week. Capping takes a couple weeks more.
Too long feeding starts brooding.


Fin, you lost me here, could you explain further.

Thanks,

Don
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FRAMEshift
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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2011, 10:01:11 AM »

I don't use much dry sugar.... maybe 1 to 2 pounds.  This is nothing compared to the stores in the frames so it isn't intended to play a real role in overall winter energy consumption.  It is about availability during cold snaps.  In my long hives the brood nest doesn't move in winter.  So the bees have to move stores to refill their cluster storage.  If they run out of cluster storage and a cold snap keeps them from moving stores, they could starve, even with plenty of food in the honey section.  The dry sugar is just above the brood nest which is the warming part of the hive.  It is always available as emergency food.  We don't have long periods of extremely cold weather.  Dry sugar just gets them through a week of unusual weather.
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BlueBee
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2011, 10:58:51 AM »

Frameshift, I thought your long hives only have a bee space between your frames and the top cover?  I know 1 to 2 pounds of sugar doesn’t require a large volume, but do you add a shim under your cover or just fill the bee space with sugar?
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Finski
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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2011, 11:07:29 AM »

If I had not of placed some dry sugar on the tops of a couple of my hives, they would have starved last January.


after couple of winter months bees are staeving.

You must do something to deminish the consumption. Look, my hives manage with syrup from September to May.  Your winter rest starts xx months and food is finish  in Janury . Do something!

- Get beestock which stop brooding in time
- restrict the wintering space
- protect from wind
- use insulation if frost is bad like -20C
- close mesh floor in winter
- feed the hive full, so they cap the full
- try to rear wintering colony that it fills the whole box.
TREAT VARROA IN TIME!


DON'T TRUST GOOD LUCK. Prepare hives for worst situations. It is late if the worst has happened.
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Finski
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2011, 11:11:07 AM »

Different strokes for different folks Finsk (as old as you are you must have heard that one, heh?).  
We don't all live in Finland where bees and beekeepers have it sooooo hard.


we don't have here 40% winter losses. But if you want to be best in that  figure, go for it .
I have not odd wintering problems. Have you?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 01:05:03 PM by Finski » Logged

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BlueBee
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« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2011, 11:19:10 AM »

You must do something to deminish the consumption. Look, my hives manage with syrup from September to May.  Your winter rest starts xx months and food is finish  in Janury . Do something!

- Get beestock which stop brooding in time
- restrict the wintering space
- protect from wind
- use insulation if frost is bad like -20C
- close mesh floor in winter
- feed the hive full, so they cap the full
- try to rear wintering colony that it fills the whole box.
TREAT VARROA IN TIME!


DON'T TRUST GOOD LUCK. Prepare hives for worst situations. It is late if the worst has happened.
applause applause applause
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FRAMEshift
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« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2011, 01:33:27 PM »

Frameshift, I thought your long hives only have a bee space between your frames and the top cover?  I know 1 to 2 pounds of sugar doesn’t require a large volume, but do you add a shim under your cover or just fill the bee space with sugar?

No shim.  Just put newpaper on top of the frames and sprinkle on the sugar with a squirt or two of water to moisten it and make it clump.  So I am just filling up the beespace.
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Finski
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« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2011, 03:07:09 PM »

:

No shim.  Just put newpaper on top of the frames and sprinkle on the sugar with a squirt or two of water to moisten it and make it clump.  So I am just filling up the beespace.

-  a place which has no real winter
- then open feeding
- and then this bee news reading
- don't take honey from hives to sell

 huh
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FRAMEshift
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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2011, 03:58:12 PM »


-  a place which has no real winter
The OP lives only 100 miles north of me.  If it works for me, it will work for him.
Quote
- then open feeding
I'm liking this more and more.  I don't use lots of jars.  I just have one big tub of sugar syrup with small pieces of wood floating in it so the bees have a place to land safely.  I place the tub 100 yards from the hives.  This is far enough to trigger the waggle dance instead of the round dance.  This keeps the bees away from the hives and does not start robbing.  I would NEVER open feed close to the hives.  This method does not work when the temperature is lower than 50 degrees at night because the bees start to drown.

Open feeding takes less equipment than other methods. It takes less work on the part of the beekeeper than other methods.  It distributes the sugar according to the size of the hive's foraging strength and at a rate which can be processed by the storage bees.  It simulates a flow which is good in the spring.  Maybe not so good in a dearth.

Quote
- and then this bee news reading
use comic books it you prefer.   grin

Quote
- don't take honey from hives to sell
We have a business leasing beehives.  The honey belongs to our customers.  We use honey from our own beeyards, but we don't sell it.  That's because we have no state approved kitchen to process the honey.  Since we have cats in the house, we could never get approval.   We could build a separate honey house for processing but it's not worth it.  That's not the business we are interested in.
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Finski
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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2011, 05:02:38 PM »

Open feeding takes less equipment than other methods. It takes less work on the part of the beekeeper than other methods.  It distributes the sugar according to the size of the hive's foraging strength and at a rate which can be processed by the storage bees.  It simulates a flow which is good in the spring.  Maybe not so good in a dearth.
 


oh boy what a nonsense. Every sentence is nonsense. 

hives foraging strengt?. Hive must be feeded that combs are full that bees cap the food. The number of wintering space is determined how much the hive had brood before stopping brooding.

Where you need flow simulation?
 I feed 10 frame hive full in 2 days without philosophy.  I fill the feeding box 2 times.

Open feeding means that bees flye like mad here and there. For what?

.that is toykeeping.
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FRAMEshift
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« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2011, 07:10:29 PM »

Open feeding means that bees flye like mad here and there. For what?

For the reasons I stated.  Each sentence is true.  Less equipment.  Less work.  Distributes feed with more going to bigger hives.  Simulates flow (whether you think that is necessary or not).  But the main reason is that open feeding at a distance from the hives does not set off robbing.  In-hive feeding often does. 
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Shanevrr
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« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2011, 11:55:27 PM »

Open feeding can also spread disease, and provoke fighting
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Shane C.
Finski
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2011, 02:26:10 AM »

Open feeding means that bees flye like mad here and there. For what?

For the reasons I stated.  Each sentence is true.  Less equipment.  Less work.  Distributes feed with more going to bigger hives.  Simulates flow (whether you think that is necessary or not).  But the main reason is that open feeding at a distance from the hives does not set off robbing.  In-hive feeding often does.  


hah hah. Then you spend  hundreds of hours chatting here. What means "less work".

If you really run something business you cannot have time to spend here. Life is not so easy in business.

With upper feeder, if you take all honey off, in our size hives the feeding takes 2 days to execute. If you use 16 litre feeder, you fill it once. Less work?

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Finski
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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2011, 02:36:08 AM »

Open feeding can also spread disease, and provoke fighting

so they do after my 48 years experiment. Then they tend to destroy small spare queen nucs.
Even they go to the neighbour bee yards half mile away. There is cloud of bees on the door of extracting room. - sorry you do not extract. You just feed...

After all, I know something about beekeeping. Dont try to write what ever comes into mind.
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