Need Bees Removed?
International
Beekeeping Forums
September 16, 2014, 07:14:05 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Beemaster's official FACEBOOK page
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar bee removal Login Register Chat  

Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Lowest colony population to survive Winter?  (Read 3266 times)
CapnChkn
House Bee
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 453


Location: Huntsville AL


« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2011, 09:27:10 PM »

Quote
But what if we are electrically heating the hive to the point that the nurse bees donít need to provide any heat

Yessir BlueBee!  That's the wacky part.  I've been having to think like an artist, so bear with me.  This is the difference between "City Folk" and the rest of the world.  Bees are wild animals after all, and even when they're being raised in the "urban" environment, they're still actually wild.  It's a factor of our wanting to have ties to the "mother earth," and a sign that no matter how civilised we think we are, we rely on nature to sustain us.   

We can throw all the numbers we want at the situation, but the bees didn't ger or read that memo.  In the words of a Computer scientist I can't remember the name of, "Plan everything out.  If you don't plan it out, it will take three times as long.  If you plan it out, it will only take twice as long..."  We may have those "Big Brains," but that doesn't mean much to Mischief, my cat, or Muffy, my mother's dog.

The obvious thing to do in this situation is to remove the factor tha keeps the eggs from hatching and growing to what we want out of it, BEE STEAK!  Any good Cowboy would say the same.  Unfortunately the bees don't want to cooperate, so we have to adjust our thinking to agree with their Concept.  I can argue with them about the brooding temperature in the hive, but they're thinking in population.

Trying to put on my bee pants,  which is pretty hard since I'm actually a tall guy, that this would make sense to any good mother or nanny, but the bees see the world in different ways.  The logical thing to do would be to remove the bees from the incubation.  Now we're going to have to feed the larvae by hand.  Doggone it, I don't know if I can get the right formula or get each and every bee in there fed right.  It's a pretty sure bet I can't get the nurse bees to listen to what I'm saying about the possible benefits to not eating the eggs.

"Synthesis Reconciles."  If there is a solution, then guys like you, me, and the rest of us will be able to sort it out.  But in order to do it, we're going to have to learn to talk bee!
Logged

"Thinking is like sin, them that doesn't is scairt of it, and them that does gets to liking it so much they can't quit!"  -Josh Billings.
Finski
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 3928

Location: Finland


« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2011, 02:21:57 AM »

Quote
But what if we are electrically heating the hive to the point that the nurse bees donít need to provide any heat

Yessir BlueBee!  That's the wacky part.  we're going to have to learn to talk bee!

i have seen what happens.....

In winter bees colect themselves on the surface of heater.
According the weather the break the cluster and make it again.

In a 4 frame nuc if the heater is too hot, bees do not use the nearby comb.

Next stage is that they vent extra heat out.

In the worst case, if the heater is too big, bees move to the walls and cold corners and totally abandon combs and brood. Brood makes heat too.

In the big hive the queen tend to lay in upper parts of the hive. If you have bottom heating the queen comes down to lay there where is the heat source.

When out tempereture is 17C and heater is 15 W, bees start to ventilate.

If the day temp is  25 C, nothing bad happens. They handle the extra heat.

Before that when I started heating in hives, I had different ind of places in my cottage yard. Windy front yard and calm back yard.  in calm back yard hives developed faster and swarmed fasten than in windy place.
In windy place chalkbrood and nosema  were more common than in calm place.

Aften heating the yard has not any more different build up places.

Logged

.
Language barrier NOT included
rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2212


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2011, 02:33:45 AM »

  well back to the DRAWING BOARD --EHHH-- cheesy  RDY-B
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4211

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2011, 02:38:09 AM »

I have seen the same things that Finski reports in my electric heating experiments.  If the hive gets too hot the bees abandon the comb and go to the walls just like Finski says!  Itís a strange thing to see.

The electric heat system I used last spring had some overshoot and undershoot issues due to the thermal mass of the heaters (resistors in concrete), this forced me to set my thermostat at 88F / 31C just to be sure I didnít overheat the bees.  Hence I was not able to precisely control the hive to 95F / 35F like a queen cell incubator can.

Back to the drawing board indeed grin
Logged
Hemlock
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 631


Location: central, Virginia


« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2011, 07:56:18 PM »

I feel as though i just heard a lecture for a Short Course.  Now we need someone to schedule a Lab so we can all get CE credit. 


They have two frames of brood now.  I might be able to add one frame of bees & brood to the little swarm.  I have been able to give them fully drawn frames to lay in.  Plus those get filled with syrup before they go into the nuc.  Not to mention the several frames with capped honey and pollen that are in storage.  Plus they are getting syrup from a HTF until it gets cold.  I can also insulate and will look into heating.

Which means a five frame nuc with three brood frames with bees.  Plenty of syrup, honey, & pollen.  And heat will be addressed since the cluster will be so small.

Thank you.
Logged
BlueBee
Galactic Bee
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4211

Location: Mid Michigan


« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2011, 09:02:00 PM »

If youíve got 2 or 3 frames with brood and bees, that should be a descent population of bees within 21 days.  I would guess your weather will be relatively mild until early November.

I use insulation in my nucs and heat if the colony is under 5 frames.  However based on the Michael Palmer video I watched he winters 4 deep frames of bees in plain wood boxes in Vermont (2 colonies per 10 frame box).  You might not need a flux capacitor in VA, I donít know.
Logged
Hemlock
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 631


Location: central, Virginia


« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2011, 09:21:04 PM »

2 or 3 frames with brood and bees, that should be a descent population of bees within 21 days.  I would guess your weather will be relatively mild until early November.
Well those 2 -3 frames of brood are Small patches of brood but from what is being said definitely enough to work with.  They got a chance anyway.  Hard to say how much brooding they have left in them.  We might get a frost and have cold nightly lows starting this weekend.  It will get warmer before December though. 
Logged
Michael Bush
Universal Bee
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 13653


Location: Nehawka, NE


WWW
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2011, 08:09:32 AM »

I have not had any luck with one hive over the other where the moisture (air) can get through.  Double screens and even a very small hole with double screen have only resulted in the top hive being overwhelmed by the moisture from the bottom hive.  I don't recommend it.  I can't say it couldn't work in some other climate, but it fails miserably in mine.
Logged

Michael Bush
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--Rick Nielsen
Shanevrr
Field Bee
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 507

Location: Staunton VA


« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2011, 09:08:07 AM »

What happens to them? Do they just die.  I was going to order some double screens as i have had some request it.  In VA it may not be a good idea then if say that
Logged

www.Valleybeesupply.com
"A responsible beekeeper is a successful one"
Shane C.
rdy-b
Super Bee
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2212


Location: clayton ca


« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2011, 04:28:49 PM »

I have not had any luck with one hive over the other where the moisture (air) can get through.  Double screens and even a very small hole with double screen have only resulted in the top hive being overwhelmed by the moisture from the bottom hive.  I don't recommend it.  I can't say it couldn't work in some other climate, but it fails miserably in mine.

yea moisture is no friend to the bees- gota give it a exit-RDY-B
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Beemaster's Beekeeping Ring
Previous | Home | Join | Random | Next
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.795 seconds with 21 queries.

Google visited last this page August 20, 2014, 05:29:02 AM