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Author Topic: How oxalic acid syrup spreads on bees  (Read 5622 times)
Poppi
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« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2011, 02:10:44 PM »

Let me say that I expected an 80% decrease in mite population.  This would have made me happy.  ApiLife Var says up to 90% or so...  my count before treatment was 100+ for 24 hours...  this is a small hive, one deep brood box...  almost all frames are full now of stores,  bees seem healthy enough but after the thymol treatment for 3 weeks...  mite count only dropped to 60/24hr period.  I also see some deformed wing virus...  only a few bees... this is what concerns me.

So this is what I am doing to try and lower the mite count...  I don't think powdered sugar is a "treatment", but it will knock off some mites.  I started last week with powdered sugar dusting, did mite count within 1 hour, wait 2 days, do mite count, 2 more days another dusting, for 16 days...  I am now at day 10 and I just checked the mite count (24 hours) and it is down to 30.  I have two more dustings and at the end I will do a mite count to see if the count is lower.  Then monitor weekly to watch.

I know when the brood slows the mite count drops as well.  I want to get it as low as I can before they cluster.  Thanks Finski for your input,  John
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Finski
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« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2011, 04:25:21 PM »

.
Wait to the end of December. Then open the hives and take brood frames off.
With oxalic trickling you achieve 96% dead rate of mites.

Soon bees start a new season and at  least your start is ok.
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Poppi
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« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2011, 04:38:23 PM »

Thanks Finski...    that is what I will do...   I am so far south, I don't have the cold winters to deal with like you and I have talked with local beekeepers and swarms can start as early as late January or February.  One beekeeper has offered to let me catch swarms from her hives...  If I catch a swarm, would you suggest that I do the oxalic dribble on them before they start building brood....   or let it go until I check the mite count...  I know she has these hives 5 years and has never treated for varroa.

Again, thanks for all your help!

John
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Finski
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« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2011, 05:26:55 PM »

hives...  If I catch a swarm, would you suggest that I do the oxalic dribble on them before they start building brood....


absolutely yes! when the swarms have settled into the hive after 3 days.

The queen do not start lay at once. It waits that bees have drawn combs.

Eggs stay 3 days and bees have not spent much energy to them. Trickling destroyes open brood. So you should handle then with oxalic after the colony has settled and before they start to feed larvae.

To treet the swarm cluster, I do not know how it works. It is too thick mass of bees to treat.

.........

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ugcheleuce
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« Reply #44 on: September 18, 2014, 06:27:50 AM »

Note that OA is only effective when used during a broodless period.  I think the same is true of powdered sugar/SBB, but that fact is often ignored.
LOL.  What am I going to do, sugar dust my colonies at 10 below zero in January, lol.

Broodlessness not only occurs in winter.  In certain methods of swarm control (if you split a colony and introduce a new queen) there can be a window of broodlessness if you time it right.
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Samuel Murray, Ugchelen, Netherlands
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ugcheleuce
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« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2014, 07:18:33 AM »

Recipe
mix 100g sugar + 100 g water + 7,5 g oxalic acid.
This enough for 3 two box hives or 5 one box hives.
Cost is almost nothing.


This recipe is linked to from this post from 2011, to which I can't reply, so I'll reply here.  I think it's important when mentioning the oxalic acid recipe out of context that it is a recipe for dribbling and not for spraying.

I'm only a 2nd year beekeeper so my knowledge on oxalic acid is theoretical.  Please correct my information if you think it is incorrect.  But this is what we learnt in beekeeping class:

==

Oxalic acid can be applied in two ways: dribbling and spraying.

Dribbling works best on a winter cluster, from above, because the bees are clustered and will spread the acid among themselves with very little wastage.  Spraying can be done in summer, and must be done directly onto the bees, so one must either spray each frame individually (time consuming), or spray the bees all together after shaking them off into a bucket (e.g. when making splits).  It is said that a new colony made from bees sprayed in a bucket will be practically varroa-free.

Oxalic acid can't be vapourised, because after the water has evaporated, the crystals remain on the wick, when they should be on the bees.

Oxalic acid can't penetrate closed brood, and since most varroa is in the brood, oxalic acid will therefore be ineffective in removing most varroa if there is closed brood.

It is unclear how oxalic acid works, but it is thought that it kills varroa in two ways: directly by contact with the acid, and indirectly by drinking the blood of bees that drank the acid syrup.  Since queens don't drink sugar syrup, it is considered safe for the queen to be present during treatment.  Oxalic acid may kill some weaker bees and some open brood.

Always wear gloves and safety glasses when using oxalic acid, and take plenty of rinse water and a mobile phone with you.  Do not underestimate this acid.  If you get acid on your skin or in your eyes, it won't burn immediately but you'll notice the injury after a few days.

Dribbling:
100 ml water + 100 g sugar + 6 g acid crystals = 3 colonies.
Works best if outside temperature is just below or above freezing.
Make the solution lukewarm so that you don't freeze the bees.
Dribble directly onto the bees in the winter cluster, from the top.

Spraying:
300 ml water + 8 g acid crystals = 3 colonies.
Works best if no closed brood is present.
Ideally suited for making broodless splits or creating packages.
* Method 1: take out every frame and spray the bees.
* Method 2: make room between frames for nozzle, and spray down into hive.
* Method 3: shake bees into a bucket, and spray them in the bucket.

Example method for spraying when making a split: put the queen, 3-6 broodless frames of bees, and foundation and/or feed into a new hive, and spray it in its new location.  New queens emerge in the old hive on day 13.  Spray the old hive on day 27.  Check if the new queen survived on day 33.

Source: http://edepot.wur.nl/151900

==

Samuel
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Samuel Murray, Ugchelen, Netherlands
6 hives in 3 locations (4 x Buckfast F2++, 2 x Ligustica F1+)
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« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2014, 11:56:53 AM »

It can also be applied with a vaporizer. That's how I apply mine.
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John Wayne
ugcheleuce
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« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2014, 01:37:07 PM »

It can also be applied with a vaporizer. That's how I apply mine.


You're right -- I was thinking specifically about room-temperature vapourising (i.e. using a wick), but one can vapourise oxalic acid with heated pads.  Is that how you do it?  Or do you vapourise oxalic acid at room temperature over the course of several days?

If I understand correctly, vapourising oxalic acid with heat pads is fairly dangerous and must be timed carefully (about 1-2 minutes per hive) to avoid overdosage -- is that right?  Room-temperature vapourising (e.g. formic acid) takes several days and is reasonably safe (does not require facial mask).

This video is in Dutch, but you can see what he does.  Do you do it in a similar way?
Bijen: Oxaalzuur verdampen om varroamijten tegen te gaan
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Samuel Murray, Ugchelen, Netherlands
6 hives in 3 locations (4 x Buckfast F2++, 2 x Ligustica F1+)
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Location: Central AL (nw corner of Elmore County)


« Reply #48 on: September 18, 2014, 08:42:07 PM »

Here's a link to some folks that sells the vaporizer. Some folks on here make their own. You take the OA powder place it in the pool and insert it into your hives. You'll need to do a test run to see how long it takes for it to vaporize completely. I found that its better if you can remove an oil tray and insert it in there. Otherwise bees will try to sting it and may hamper the vapor. Make sure you don't breathe the fumes and also have the hive completely shut up for 10 minutes. Follow the instructions pretty close so you don't over do it and kill your bees. Let me know if I need to explain in more detail. I think there's some youtube videos out there as well. Good luck.
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John Wayne
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« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2014, 06:28:26 PM »

Take a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQp9pdAOjdo&list=UU2JGH5ZBtWQJuTYCyfI3M3Q
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Dave

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