thanks for the tips. i used them (although despite searching couldn't find the queen).
got most of the bees. they had one night in the nuc and then decamped. Hopefully they will stay in the 8 frame deep I put them in this time.
Ended up cutting under them and pushing a tarp in, then emptying the lot into the box (will have to get all the vegetation out later, if they don't).
Then, just using my hands to scoop a lot up. Unfortunately this still left a lot in the reeds.
Never found the queen, but I think I eventually got her (saw lots of fanning bees as I went along).
1. The nuc with the swarm where I found them the next day after hiving them image 1
2. closeup of the swarm in grass/reeds close up of bees
3. wax work they did overnight in the nuc wax work on inside of nuc
4. wax work they did drawing out the foundation overnight drawing foundation