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Author Topic: Republican Front Runner  (Read 23547 times)
luvin honey
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« Reply #80 on: October 28, 2011, 05:36:28 PM »

Another example.... My wife was taken to the hospital with chest pains at 10 PM. Released at 10 AM. 12 hours, 15,000.00 dollars. No insurance. I called for a conference. When I left the conference, I wrote a check for 5,000.00, totally paid in full. That's what Kathy is referring to. If they can't bill the ins. Co., they will accept what they can get. No ins. means cheaper, but same quality, care.
And you don't think that gets passed down to everyone else who still has insurance?
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luvin honey
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« Reply #81 on: October 28, 2011, 05:38:39 PM »

BTW, Jesus didn't save the guy on the other cross there for stealing stuff.  He did save his soul, which was far more important.  The new law of the NT is about our sins being paid for once, not having to sacrifice to cover them like in the OT.  He didn't say that capitol punishment was wrong, but we do have to endure a lot of mockery if we follow Him, thence the cheek comment.
No, but he did restore the ear of the high priest that one of his disciples sliced off. I think you'd be hard pressed to find an example of Jesus advocating for anything resembling the death penalty or violence.
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The pedigree of honey
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---Emily Dickinson
kathyp
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« Reply #82 on: October 28, 2011, 06:08:52 PM »

Quote
example of Jesus advocating for anything resembling the death penalty or violence.

except for that whole 'believe in me or burn in hell' part.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
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« Reply #83 on: October 28, 2011, 09:35:01 PM »

""And you don't think that gets passed down to everyone else who still has insurance?""

No, I think that's the real price. I think the ones with ins. are gouged for the rest of it. If there were no ins., the lower price would be stated in the beginning.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #84 on: October 28, 2011, 11:07:23 PM »

""And you don't think that gets passed down to everyone else who still has insurance?""

No, I think that's the real price. I think the ones with ins. are gouged for the rest of it. If there were no ins., the lower price would be stated in the beginning.

The insurance companies have deals with the hospitals and wouldn't have paid the $15k either.  The 15k is what the hospitals need from the people who can pay to cover all the unpaid procedures they are required to provide by law to people who are too poor to pay or perhaps can't even communicate that in the english language.

3 hours in the ER for my son's broken wrist, 6 minutes of doctor time, 3 xrays and a splint and they charged my insurance (my company) $3k.  NO WAY that was the cost of the procedure.  Should have been $300 max.  But we were paying for the illegal family there because the grandfather had heartburn.  And the homeless guy with the stomachache.

Rick
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Rick
sterling
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« Reply #85 on: October 29, 2011, 04:54:29 PM »

BTW, Jesus didn't save the guy on the other cross there for stealing stuff.  He did save his soul, which was far more important.  The new law of the NT is about our sins being paid for once, not having to sacrifice to cover them like in the OT.  He didn't say that capitol punishment was wrong, but we do have to endure a lot of mockery if we follow Him, thence the cheek comment.
No, but he did restore the ear of the high priest that one of his disciples sliced off. I think you'd be hard pressed to find an example of Jesus advocating for anything resembling the death penalty or violence.

In the law of Moses "Old Testement Law" God the Father commanded the death penalty for lesser things then killing unborn babies..
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 01:08:51 PM by sterling » Logged
BlueBee
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« Reply #86 on: November 02, 2011, 07:11:06 PM »

Looks like the race positions are about to change again.......

So what do you all think of the new Herman Cain harassment allegations?  

Do we go too far in tearing people down for a personal lapse over a life span of 50 to 60 years?  Or not?  

Should the salacious get more attention than the policy positions?

How is this going to affect the race?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 07:37:45 PM by BlueBee » Logged
kathyp
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« Reply #87 on: November 02, 2011, 07:42:43 PM »

anybody who runs is going to get hammered.  the closer to the top, the more the will be a target.  in some ways it's unfortunate because it keeps people from wanting to get involved in politics.  we all have stuff in our past that we'd rather not have splashed across the front pages.

of all the charges that could be brought against someone, this one bothers me least...for what we know of it now.

i have had to deal with several of these things.  in all but one case, there was either money, or an extremely twitchy female involved.  "sexual harassment" is an  subjective charge.  yes, there are guidelines, but when the choice is fighting it in court or paying off the twitchy female, paying off almost always wins out.

should we know about our candidates?  of course.  how much??  that's not even a question worth asking because we will know what the press decides is important for us to know.  that is the unfortunate state of things.  if they like someone, we will not know the dirty little secrets they dig up.  even if those things come out, they will be pushed to the bottom of the stack and most people are to stupid to do their own digging.

i want to know things that go to character.  who they sleep with is not as important as a rape allegation.  who they hang out with is not as important as who they do deals with.  i don't care what their grades are, but it's nice to know what papers they wrote and what positions they took in those writings. don't care if they got a DUI 20 years ago, but if it was 6 month ago, it's relevant.   

a lot of us, myself included, could probably have been charged with sexual harassment a some time.  god help us if someone sees dollar signs when we say or do the wrong thing.........

 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
indypartridge
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« Reply #88 on: November 03, 2011, 07:00:45 AM »

i have had to deal with several of these things.  in all but one case, there was either money, or an extremely twitchy female involved.  "sexual harassment" is an  subjective charge.  yes, there are guidelines, but when the choice is fighting it in court or paying off the twitchy female, paying off almost always wins out.
Fortunately I haven't had to deal with "several", but the few I've had to deal with as a supervisor were more than enough. According to the training I had, "sexual harassment" has nothing to do with the intent of the person accused of harassing, and is solely defined by the perception of the one believing he/she had been harassed. Kathy's description of a "twitchy female" reminds me of the worst one I had to deal with. I had a valued employee, a large, physically imposing, black man who was accused by of harassment by a secretary ("twitchy female"). Personally, I believe she was just intimidated and nervous working around him, but I was still required to discipline him, put a letter in his file, and threaten him with termination. He ended up resigning a short time later, believing his name had been sullied, and that he had no future with the company with that letter in his file.
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Mason
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« Reply #89 on: November 03, 2011, 11:17:42 AM »

Quote
I was still required to discipline him, put a letter in his file, and threaten him with termination. He ended up resigning a short time later, believing his name had been sullied, and that he had no future with the company with that letter in his file.

This works both ways.  If word gets out that a woman has previously filed harassment charges they are most certainly not as employable.  Quite unfortunate for the women who are actually victims of harassment and not just get overs.  Sexual harassment in the work place was and is certainly a problem.  The laws seemed to have overcompensated for the previous lack of justice but hopefully will eventually settle to an equitable end.   

My mother would refer to this as the pendulum of justice where favoritism in the law will swing from one extreme to the other.  The eternal optimist she assures me it will eventually settle in the middle and justice will be achieved.  The prime example is spousal abuse.  Back in the 50's women would get beat to death and it was considered "a family matter".  By the 90's if the cops showed up it didn't matter the circumstances whoever had the male organ went to jail and consequently lost some rights.  The same held true in a divorce.  The women always made out like bandits and got custody simply on gender.  Both of those issues it seems the pendulum of justice has in fact settled more equitably although not perfect.   
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kathyp
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« Reply #90 on: November 03, 2011, 12:02:13 PM »

great points, both of you.  

as a woman observing the behavior of other women, and having spent so much time playing with the marines, i'm probably not real sympathetic to the charge most of the time.

i'm watching my granddaughter hit the hormone stage and get flirty with the boys.  i don't even think she knows what she's doing.  my grandson has been showing off for the girls the last couple of years.  we are just programed that way.   as adults we have to modify our behavior, but the instinct is still there.

only time i was really aggravated by someones behavior was with a female co-worker in a civilian job.  i thought "thank you for offering to set me up with one of your girlfriends, but no, i don't want to explore the lesbian lifestyle" was pretty clear..... it was my boss who suggested that i consider a sexual harassment charge.  hadn't even occurred to me and i wasn't interested.  she was a doughy little thing and i knew i could take her out if i had to  evil

as a supervisor in the military and now in Red Cross, i find that most problems have more to do with culture/region.  the good old boy from OK putting his arm around the 60's bra burner from NY, and calling her darlin' just doesn't not go over very well!
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
sterling
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« Reply #91 on: November 03, 2011, 12:40:01 PM »

I was thinking that these charges about sexual stuff would help Cain get some democratic votes. Look at their heros JFK, Teddy Kennedy, and Bill Cliton. Just saying grin
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luvin honey
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« Reply #92 on: November 03, 2011, 05:15:56 PM »

Sterling, you're hilarious. You appear to have forgotten all the pecadillos on the other side of the political fence, though. Or do most of those happen in men's bathrooms?  evil

When I was 15-17, I worked at a place where one of the supervisors kept asking me out. I was already dating someone, not interested in him anyway, and kept saying no. One time I was late for work and was let go. I had probably been late more than once, but in comparison with a lot of the behavior that went on in that particular workplace, it was extremely minor.

So I definitely believe that some women are in situations that they don't report that are "sexual harrassment." Like anything, I'm sure some situations are not clear at all as to who's to blame, if anyone.

If you're in a position of power, you'd best be super, super clear about your interactions with coworkers of the opposite gender. And asking them out repeatedly doesn't fit that category in my book.
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
sterling
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« Reply #93 on: November 03, 2011, 07:53:27 PM »

I'm aware, but can't recall any on that side being made into heros after they did the things these three did. Can't even recall a Rebulican president doing what Willie did much less getting away with it.
 Smiley Can you?
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BlueBee
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« Reply #94 on: November 03, 2011, 08:48:27 PM »

Thomas Jefferson?
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kathyp
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« Reply #95 on: November 03, 2011, 09:31:07 PM »

there is some question as to whether or not TJ slept with Sally...or any of the slaves.  Sally was apparently the daughter of TJs FIL.  smiley

the story was never substantiated and came out of an gotcha story during an election.....we see how that goes.  the report that there was DNA evidence that TJ was father of the children is also not something that works.  with that many years between and that many Jefferson kin in the area, there is no way to know what DNA they were tracking.  besides, sally would have been related to TJs kids through the wifes father.

can't really put him on the list with that kind of evidence.  not as good as the blue dress  evil
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BlueBee
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« Reply #96 on: November 03, 2011, 10:17:26 PM »

Can't put him on the list?  The Thomas Jefferson Research Committee and most historians would disagree.

“Based on the documentary, scientific, statistical, and oral history evidence, the TJF Research Committee Report on Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings (January 2000) remains the most comprehensive analysis of this historical topic.  Ten years later, TJF and most historians now believe that, years after his wife’s death, Thomas Jefferson was the father of the six children of Sally Hemings mentioned in Jefferson's records, including Beverly, Harriet, Madison, and Eston Hemings.”

Right off the Moticello.org website:  http://www.monticello.org/site/plantation-and-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-sally-hemings-brief-account

For those unfamiliar with the story, Sally Hemings was one of Jefferson’s slaves.  She bore a number of light skinned children sporting a resemblance to Jefferson.  Hmmmm...what are the odds of that.

I toured Monticello a few years back.  A very interesting place to visit if you’ve never been there before.  Ole Jefferson lived on the top of a tall hill.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 10:30:08 PM by BlueBee » Logged
kathyp
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« Reply #97 on: November 03, 2011, 10:59:18 PM »

next paragraph:

Since then, a committee commissioned by the Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society, after reviewing essentially the same material, reached different conclusions, namely that Sally Hemings was only a minor figure in Thomas Jefferson's life and that it is very unlikely he fathered any of her children. This committee also suggested in its report, issued in April 2001, that Jefferson's younger brother Randolph (1755-1815) was more likely the father of at least some of Sally Hemings' children.


since she was a mulatto (correct term for the times), there is no surprise that some of her children were light skinned. there was likely other white blood in there.  some reports that her mother was mixed also.
  there is also pretty good evidence that there is Jefferson blood line mixed in the Heming blood line.  what there is not, is proof of which Jefferson mixed it in there or when.

not saying he couldn't have done it.  just saying that there is no evidence to prove it. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
indypartridge
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« Reply #98 on: November 04, 2011, 07:04:26 AM »

And the research and debate continues on Jefferson and Hemings, with a book published less than 2 months ago, disputing the claims that it was Thomas Jefferson cavorting with Hemings:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/aug/30/new-book-disputes-claim-jefferson-fathered-childre/?page=all
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BlueBee
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« Reply #99 on: November 04, 2011, 02:18:27 PM »

On a similar note:  I wonder how many centuries into the future people will be “debating” rather Obama was born in Hawaii or not.  LOL.

Back to present day politics.  

Most here seem to think front runner Romney is too moderate or too liberal.  He did after all come up with universal health care even before Obama!  So is Romney more “liberal” or left leaning than President Obama?
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