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Author Topic: Republican Front Runner  (Read 26657 times)
kathyp
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« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2011, 09:52:18 PM »

we'll get to romney.  what makes one ultra right?

also curious what government or legal system most closely matches what you'd like to see replace ours?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2011, 11:11:07 PM »

I really don't think the constitution is a day older than the last amendment, and that certainly isn't 235 years. I would like to see it upgraded one more time with the "28th amendment" going around in emails.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2011, 11:33:36 PM »

Well, an example of an ultra left wing position would be scraping a 235 year old document written by people living in a time with no electricity, no cars, no internet, with slaves and no civil rights, few women rights and replacing it with a system of REAL democracy.  Cut out this useless middle man system we have and give power directly to the people!  Is that ultra left wing enough for ya?

Yeah, well said!  The proletariat will rise again!! rolleyes  I've seen plenty of the ows videos, and can see exactly where that "democracy" is going.
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Rick
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« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2011, 10:39:33 AM »

The people would not have to “rise up” if we had a REAL Democracy in a constitution because we the people would be in direct control of solving our problems.  Clearly our “representatives” are NOT solving much of anything.  They are beholden to their parties and financiers, not the people of this country.  
  
If we had a REAL Democracy we would directly vote on the issues of day via the Internet.  Not only would that quickly solve the problems of the day, it would also save us a lot of money by eliminating the Washington bureaucrats.  We all want to save money don’t we?  I am always amazed when I hear people say this would not work.  Too much kool aid I guess.

However this thread isn’t about my good ideas, this is about the Republican Frontrunner.  I’m not seeing much support for Romney here.  What gives?    
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sawdstmakr
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« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2011, 11:55:47 AM »


However this thread isn’t about my good ideas, this is about the Republican Frontrunner.  I’m not seeing much support for Romney here.  What gives?    


He is too much of a moderate.
Jim
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kathyp
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« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2011, 12:27:25 PM »

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However this thread isn’t about my good ideas, this is about the Republican Frontrunner.

true, but before i have a conversation, i like to define the terms.  you used the word "ultra" and i thought it would be helpful to know what you meant by that.  i got your liberal definition....although i don't think that your position is ultra left wing. 

Romney is a mixed bag.  as a business man, he's got a good head.  as governor he leaned left of center on to many issues.  there are so many issues of overreaching government that need to be taken on by the next president and congress, we can't afford to have either willing to compromise toward the left.

democracy:  the best example of an attempt at this was Arnold in CA with the referendums. it didn't work well.  why?  voter fatigue.  cost.  most people are not really political engaged.  poll your friends on issues.  bet they don't know much about local, state, or federal issues, let alone what each is supposed to be responsible for.  the majority of people don't vote now.  if they bother, it's only for big elections like president. what you would end up with is an ever decreasing number of people hopping on their computers and making decisions for the majority.
and what would protect the minority? 
would states do the same, or would we just do away with the states and have 300 million people voting daily on issues for the country?  wouldn't that mean the areas of the country with fewer people would be at the mercy of those areas with lots of people?  should new york city be making decisions for billings, montana? (more than they already do)

most of the people who embrace ideas like yours, don't have a clue what the constitution says.  if you did, you'd be in favor of returning to constitutional principles which would both save money and massivly reduce the size of the federal government.  problem solved.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2011, 04:15:03 PM »

I support the most right leaning candidate, small government, yet with ethics and morals that most align with mine.

That ain't romney.  He may not be any worse than the rest, but he's got the proven track record.  Do we want somebody who we know what he will do regardless of what he says, or would we rather take a chance and maybe get somebody who will do what he says?

But in a contest between bad and badder, I'd still have to vote for bad. rolleyes
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Rick
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« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2011, 04:45:35 PM »



But in a contest between bad and badder, I'd still have to vote for bad. rolleyes



It is too far and few between that we have another choice.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 05:08:08 PM by nella » Logged
kathyp
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« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2011, 05:49:17 PM »

Romney with a  conservative congress will probably be ok.  we'll have to pay as much attention to our reps as we do to the prez.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2011, 07:38:25 PM »

I love it when people just open their mouths and repeat what they think they heard some other group say..   and cannot "show" the proof!
Poppi--did you watch the debate? I did, and that is exactly what I heard and saw.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2011, 07:40:09 PM »

"""When people cheer over an incredibly high number of executions in Texas and shout out "let him die" over a rhetorical question about someone without health insurance, I find it greatly disturbing that I share a county with people with these sentiments. """

I am one of those people.

I am also a veteran who uses VA medical care. I have on my medical records at VA,  ""Do not resuscitate."', along with ""Do not use any external life support at any time"". To go along with that, I have a living will.

I do not believe life should be kept after usefulness is gone, whether at birth, or at age 100, myself included.

I firmly believe no man or woman who was executed has ever killed again, so it is definitely a deterrent.  evil  grin grin
The question related to a hypothetical young man without health insurance.

It's the ones who end up being proven innocent that I worry about.
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The pedigree of honey
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kathyp
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« Reply #71 on: October 27, 2011, 08:03:51 PM »

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The question related to a hypothetical young man without health insurance.

It's the ones who end up being proven innocent that I worry about.

i don't watch debates because i think they are pretty useless.

  i do think that people need to be responsible for themselves.  i also know that there would be a ton more docs, hospitals, and other medical professionals doing charity work if we had some tort reform.  i'd like to see 3rd party insurance done away with entirely, but i have already written about that at length, so i won't do it again.

because of the advances in science we are to the point where anyone convicted and sentenced to death now, should be sentenced when there in incontrovertible DNA or video evidence, or a confession.  you can't go back and undo any wrongs of the past. i'd like to see the death penalty applied far more often than it is, and with far less delay.  we have one in oregon now who has been convicted, gone through as many appeals as he wanted, and now say he's ready to go.  it's being held up by outside groups filing appeals on his behalf.  way past time to pull the switch on him.

you might also consider that its a rare person convicted of a capitol crime that doesn't also have a long history of violent crime behind them.  "innocent" is probably not applicable to most of them.  "caught this time" fits better.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
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« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2011, 09:50:56 PM »

""The question related to a hypothetical young man without health insurance.""
67 years ago, at age 7, my brother-in=law had no insurance. He was given the best care available at that time. The populace of the USA will care for it's own, without government handing out 5 times what any one person needs.

""It's the ones who end up being proven innocent that I worry about.""

And some of them I will never believe that they were innocent. Just that they proved someone was there, ALSO, IMHO.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
luvin honey
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« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2011, 10:22:23 PM »

Well, iddee, we'll see. We're about to lose our health insurance. I've told everyone I know that this is going to happen. Despite good family and friends, nobody is stepping up to offer us help. Instead, we will buy catastrophic coverage and hope for good years where we don't get even close to meeting our $10,000 deductible. I don't see circumstances in which American citizens provide each other with health coverage.

Regarding the death penalty, if I was only using my brain and could be guaranteed guilt for heinous crimes, I would support the death penalty. My religious beliefs, though, and the fact that innocent people have died don't allow me to.
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The pedigree of honey
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iddee
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« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2011, 10:30:31 PM »

Of course innocent people have died... That's why we want to remove the perpetrator. Many more that way than innocently executed by the law.

As for religion, I just think about Sampson. He killed 10,000 and the lord was right with him. Even he says there is a time and place.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
kathyp
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« Reply #75 on: October 27, 2011, 10:31:23 PM »

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I don't see circumstances in which American citizens provide each other with health coverage

and they shouldn't.  one of the things that has driven up the cost of medicine is that none of us pay for our own coverage.  we don't shop for our care.  market forces do not exist in insurance coverage.  insurance cost is governed by spreading the risk, not what the market will bear.

last time went to the doc i had some labs done.  they are covered.  i have no idea what they cost.  i went downstairs to the lab and had them done.

  if i had been paying out of pocket, i'd be checking around for the lab that could do the tests at the least cost. all of us shopping around would cause labs to compete.  competition brings prices down and services up.  
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
luvin honey
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« Reply #76 on: October 27, 2011, 10:41:17 PM »

Of course innocent people have died... That's why we want to remove the perpetrator. Many more that way than innocently executed by the law.

As for religion, I just think about Sampson. He killed 10,000 and the lord was right with him. Even he says there is a time and place.
I believe it when the bible says that Jesus coming brought about a new law, one in which someone slapped actually turns the other cheek to accept another slap. But, yes, there was an awful lot of bloodshed in the Old Testament!
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The pedigree of honey
Does not concern the bee;
A clover, any time, to him
Is aristocracy.
---Emily Dickinson
iddee
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« Reply #77 on: October 27, 2011, 10:53:05 PM »

RE-read my post. I said he had no coverage. He still was treated when needed. You are spending money on a possible sickness in the future. If you don't spend it, you will still get the same treatment if the sickness comes.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
iddee
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« Reply #78 on: October 27, 2011, 10:56:55 PM »

Another example.... My wife was taken to the hospital with chest pains at 10 PM. Released at 10 AM. 12 hours, 15,000.00 dollars. No insurance. I called for a conference. When I left the conference, I wrote a check for 5,000.00, totally paid in full. That's what Kathy is referring to. If they can't bill the ins. Co., they will accept what they can get. No ins. means cheaper, but same quality, care.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
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« Reply #79 on: October 27, 2011, 11:11:38 PM »

The reason hospital bills are so high is all of the free services they are providing for all the people who go there for free because they won't go to a doctor because a doctor office would require them to pay.  Or even check their residency status. rolleyes   So they try to soak the ones who CAN pay to cover those costs.

I'm sure that most dr. offices work with patients as far as what they charge.  They have the "official" price, but that is what they try to get out of the insurance companies, if you don't have insurance, I think they will give you a much lower rate.  I'm sure losing your insurance will hurt, but I don't think it will be the end of the world.  Iddee pointed out a great way around it, although 5000 is still a lot of money.  My brother had to do the same thing when a firework almost blew off his thumb.

I'm grateful for the insurance I have now, but in a few years my insurance will be downgraded to crappy rationed healthcare because it will be cheaper for my company to pay the penalties than it will be for them to pay the extra high taxes because by then most private insurance plans will be considered "cadillac", thanks to horrible laws voted in a few years ago, with that exact intent.  I'm sure the new healthcare law will help quite a few people.  But at the cost of ruining the system for everybody else. Great britain, here we come!

BTW, Jesus didn't save the guy on the other cross there for stealing stuff.  He did save his soul, which was far more important.  The new law of the NT is about our sins being paid for once, not having to sacrifice to cover them like in the OT.  He didn't say that capitol punishment was wrong, but we do have to endure a lot of mockery if we follow Him, thence the cheek comment.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 11:35:43 PM by Scadsobees » Logged

Rick
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