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Author Topic: President Obama executes american citizens  (Read 6142 times)
Larry Bees
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« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2011, 08:51:54 AM »

This isn't some criminal case that a DA presents to a grand jury, we're at war. When you're at war,
YOU KILL THE ENEMY! Good job President Obama!!!

Yes people! We're at war! You kill the enemy!
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kathyp
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« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2011, 11:14:16 AM »

no one supports killing early and often more than i do.  i have to say that i am amazed that so many people are perfectly fine with this, though. 

guess my biggest question is not why was it done.  i know we have done this stuff before.   why was it done so publicly?  was it to be able to take credit publicly?  no doubt thats part of it.  was it to test public opinion on execution of American citizens?  well, if that was it, we did not disappoint, did we?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
yockey5
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« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2011, 05:19:18 PM »

Kathyp please consider my one question here. Do you support treason? Nor do I, and these men have turned away from America, left her (America) to plot our demise. I don't think here,a trail is in order.
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kathyp
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« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2011, 08:58:36 PM »

wow.  i can't say much more without repeating myself again....which at my age, i do a lot anyway  smiley

maybe i wasn't clear so i'll try one more time.

we have a constitution.  it is the law of the land.  it gives citizens certain protections FROM the government. 
1.  these were US citizens
2.  despite what they have done, they were not charged with a crime.
3.  this same government thought it was very important to extend constitutional rights to non-citizen terrorists.

so, removing the emotion from the situation, and acknowledging that these were really bad guys who needed to be dead.  also acknowledging that our government has assassinated citizens before....

why did they not charge these guys?  why did they not revoke their citizenship?  why did they publicly announce that they were going to execute them?  having done it,  why did they publicly take credit for it?

when a country begins to justify breaking it's own laws....for the good of the people/country, where might this lead?  consider that many of us have been declared potential/actual terrorists.  i must be on every single DHS list that exists. so are are many of you.  it should give us all pause when something like this happens and everyone thinks it's ok....because these were really, really, bad guys.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
JackM
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« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2011, 09:55:01 PM »

when a country begins to justify breaking it's own laws....for the good of the people/country, where might this lead? 

The seriousness of that statement is a very valid point.

And I am darn glad they got him regardless of whether he was indicted or not.  But due process should have occurred over some of that time prior to blowing his guts away.  He had a bounty on his head, why not just do as Kathy says, strip his citizenship, indict, something to follow due process?   

Our government is no longer what the founding fathers envisioned.

This is just another instance in my book of the pres just doing as he wants without concern for the People or Constitution of the United States. 
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« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2011, 10:30:04 PM »

Based on what the press was reporting, nobody broke any laws here.  When Bush got the go ahead for the “war on terror”, the laws that were passed to legitimize that included provisions for taking out terrorists, foreign or domestic.  The Constitution is a framework for our laws, not the modern day statutes.
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kathyp
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« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2011, 10:46:20 PM »

Quote
Constitution is a framework for our laws, not the modern day statutes.

no, the constitution is the law of the land.  it is designed to restrain the actions of the federal government, and enumerate the limited powers/responsibilities of the federal government.

just as we in the military take an oath to protect and defend the constitution, so does the president and other elected officials.  a declaration of war does not negate the constitution, although i do understand that sometimes extreme circumstances call for extreme measure. 

look what FDR did during WW2.  he had a formal declaration of war, but that didn't give him the right to round up Japanese Americans and put them in camps.  did people understand and approve at the time?  yes they did.  the same constitutional considerations did not apply to the Germans spies we caught.  those were executed and this was perfectly legal. 
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
BlevinsBees
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« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2011, 11:01:32 PM »

What part of WE ARE AT WAR do you not understand?  shocked
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« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2011, 12:46:01 PM »

I wonder if the administration was reluctant to revoke their citizenship because they were concerned about a politically correct muslim backlash?

They didn't think it was necessary? The process would take too long and they had the bad guys in their sights?

That part is confusing.
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Rick
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« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2011, 07:59:38 PM »

no one supports killing early and often more than i do.  i have to say that i am amazed that so many people are perfectly fine with this, though. 

guess my biggest question is not why was it done.  i know we have done this stuff before.   why was it done so publicly?  was it to be able to take credit publicly?  no doubt thats part of it.  was it to test public opinion on execution of American citizens?  well, if that was it, we did not disappoint, did we?
WHY WAS it done so PUBLICLY?
Because OBAMA's favorability was slipping again and it helps his poll numbers.  :-xRemmember BinLaden? evil How his numbers jumped up. Maybe if his polls numbers will stay down for awhile we can get rid of all the terrorist SOB's
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BlueBee
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« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2011, 02:54:03 AM »

I see that even far right wing former VP Cheney says this was a ‘very good strike and was justified’.  

What’s there to debate?  It was legal, we are at war.  Obama did his job, protecting us, as he should.
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kathyp
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« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2011, 02:08:44 PM »

fortunately we have laws so that decisions do not need to be validated by how many, and who, agrees with them.  Wink
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2011, 08:09:13 PM »

The Constitiution was written to protect the citizens and limit the power of government. Surely they could have revoked the citizenship long ago.Read the bill of rights,they are the first ten by no accident.
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luvin honey
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« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2011, 10:37:57 PM »

wow.  i can't say much more without repeating myself again....which at my age, i do a lot anyway  smiley

maybe i wasn't clear so i'll try one more time.

we have a constitution.  it is the law of the land.  it gives citizens certain protections FROM the government. 
1.  these were US citizens
2.  despite what they have done, they were not charged with a crime.
3.  this same government thought it was very important to extend constitutional rights to non-citizen terrorists.

so, removing the emotion from the situation, and acknowledging that these were really bad guys who needed to be dead.  also acknowledging that our government has assassinated citizens before....

why did they not charge these guys?  why did they not revoke their citizenship?  why did they publicly announce that they were going to execute them?  having done it,  why did they publicly take credit for it?

when a country begins to justify breaking it's own laws....for the good of the people/country, where might this lead?  consider that many of us have been declared potential/actual terrorists.  i must be on every single DHS list that exists. so are are many of you.  it should give us all pause when something like this happens and everyone thinks it's ok....because these were really, really, bad guys.


If this indeed is true, then I would be completely opposed. For the same reason I opposed lack of due process during Bush years. Laws are laws are laws. When we start applying our own reasoning to them, I believe that's a slippery slope, no matter who's doing it.
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iddee
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« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2011, 10:49:53 PM »

There is a law that no one has brought up yet. ""outlaw""

Once a citizen is declared an outlaw by any judge or court, he can be taken dead or alive. No trial needed. Remember the old westerns. Tho they were comically fiction, they had a base of truth. I am even old enough to remember the ""WANTED, DEAD OR ALIVE"" posters in the post office.

I do think he had been declared an outlaw, by more than one judge.
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kathyp
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« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2011, 11:07:35 PM »

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For the same reason I opposed lack of due process during Bush years

examples?

iddee, to my knowledge, the only warrant out for him was in Yemen.  in spite of our interviews and investigations, we must have felt we did not have enough to arrest him.  he was on various terrorist lists, but that's it.  he was in and out of this country, lived in europe, etc.

i'm not saying that he was not everything the government said he was.  not saying he didn't need to die.  i do think that doing it the way we did was wrong.  it should have been done as the Mossad does it.  quickly, quietly, and leaving the word to guess.  instead, it was announced publicly and public credit taken.  it's one thing to break the laws for a good reason.  it's another to throw it in the face of the world and basically tell them that our laws have no meaning.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2011, 11:12:39 PM »

I would probably agree with you if I thought we knew even 10% of the whole truth from the garbage the media spills our way.

As is, I imagine there were a few times he had been declared. For all we know, some idiot judge may have declared anyone on a USA terrorist list is an outlaw. That in itself would make taking any of them out perfectly legal.
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

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« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2011, 12:48:26 PM »

If US laws are for US citizens, does the same US law apply to US citizens on foreign soil? NOPE

Even our own US military personnel does not have the freedoms on foreign soil as they do on US soil.
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BlevinsBees
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« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2011, 01:07:56 PM »

He's was a traitor as a US citizen and now he's dead. What's there left to discuss?
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kathyp
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« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2011, 01:19:44 PM »

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He's was a traitor as a US citizen and now he's dead. What's there left to discuss?

yes, he was, but he was not declared a traitor by the legal system.

forget about him for a second.  what is the governments criteria for executing american citizens? 

i have been declared an enemy, terrorist, potential terrorist, and i'm sure i'm on (proudly on) every list that this government keeps.  isn't anyone curious about how this decision was reached?

they didn't have enough to arrest him when they had the chances.  they didn't revoke his citizenship.  to my knowledge, there was not even a warrant out for his arrest.  no indictments against him.  i'd kind of like to know what difference, in their minds, exists between him and me.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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