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Author Topic: President Obama executes american citizens  (Read 5884 times)
Scadsobees
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« on: September 30, 2011, 12:29:32 PM »

So President Obama orders 2 American citizens to be summarily executed without due process.

On NPR, while discussing this story (they weren't saying that the story was bad, in their NPR way) it did come up that the above statement could be a problem.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/09/30/us-born-terror-boss-anwar-al-awlaki-killed/

Is that a problem?  I see it more that a couple of cockroaches were exterminated.
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kathyp
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2011, 01:22:00 PM »

it is a problem in that it's illegal.  they are protected by the constitution and are entitled to due process.  if we are going to give constitutional protection to non-citizens that we catch doing bad stuff, how do we put out an execution order on a citizen?

that said....i'm not sorry to see them gone.  this kind of stuff has been done before.  the difference this time is that it was made public and there was no public outcry.  that's a pretty dangerous precedent to set, both for the admin, and the public.

what they could have done is revoked their citizenship and then killed them.  they had grounds to do both.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
iddee
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2011, 01:24:41 PM »

Isn't it the same as a cop shooting an armed robber. He hasn't been tried, but is a known danger. I don't see any difference. They had both been connected to terror killings.

Dang, I hate to write in favor of him.  afro
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Scadsobees
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2011, 01:40:25 PM »

the difference this time is that it was made public and there was no public outcry.  that's a pretty dangerous precedent to set, both for the admin, and the public.

Yeah, that's what did made me feel uncomfortable about it.  I'm more than happy to see these guys gone, but there's always the "what's next" question.
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Rick
kathyp
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2011, 01:42:59 PM »

Quote
Isn't it the same as a cop shooting an armed robber.

not quite.  a cop might shoot an armed robber if they are threatened as they try to apprehend them.  a cop would not track that robber and shoot him just because they found him.  if we had sent a team in to arrest the guy and he'd resisted, that would have been a different thing.  

i am sure that these are not the first american citizens to be assassinated.  in this case, it was a public flaunting of ignoring the constitution.  if you do these things and no one objects, what might you try next?
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 01:52:35 PM »

I have no problem with it.  If the missiles that Clinton fired into Afghanistan had taken out Bin Laden in the 1990s, it would have saved everybody a lot of lives and a lot of money.  One guy resulted in us spending trillions of dollars (we don’t have) on this war on terrorism. 

If you’re an enemy combatant, you’re fair game.
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kathyp
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2011, 02:13:03 PM »

Quote
If the missiles that Clinton fired into Afghanistan had taken out Bin Laden in the 1990s


you mean the ones he should have fired?  and i agree.

Quote
If you’re an enemy combatant, you’re fair game.


agree again.  in this case though, we are talking about American citizens.  big difference between that and UBL.  UBL had no expectation of constitutional protections.  American citizens do...or should.

it appears that citizenship could have been revoked.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+8USC1481

this should have been done first.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2011, 02:23:58 PM »


it appears that citizenship could have been revoked.


this should have been done first.

I agree that it should have been, and for all we know it may have, but I'm not feeling bad about their demise. It's not like they were vacationing in the 'Stan and decided to buy a few boxes of cookies to support the local terror organization. It's pretty obvious to me that they had already renounced their citizenship on their own. If letting them take a ride to the afterlife via UAV saves more of our folks, then so be it. With them having citizenship, I wouldnt trust them not being allowed to reenter the U.S to wreak more havoc to to whomever. I'm not an Obama Admin fan either, but I cant see anything wrong with this one-citizenship or not.
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bulldog
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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2011, 02:45:42 PM »

let's face it. here in America our government only abides by its own laws when it is convenient and ignores them when it is not. this has been true all throughout our history. two less cockroaches on the planet will not make me lose any sleep.
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« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2011, 03:19:12 PM »

ok...it's a good thing that the American government announced the fact that they were going to assassinate an American citizen....then did it. the general public has no problem with this because the guy they killed is a really bad guy....

the government has made itself judge, jury, and executioner in this case.  where is the line? do they have one?  do we?

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2011, 03:37:12 PM »

Obama did something right? If this is true, I am all for it. I guess even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while.
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iddee
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« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2011, 03:45:04 PM »

""not quite.  a cop might shoot an armed robber if they are threatened as they try to apprehend them.  a cop would not track that robber and shoot him just because they found him.  if we had sent a team in to arrest the guy and he'd resisted, that would have been a different thing. ""

Tell that to the weavers. They tracked and harassed them for months, then activated an action to get it over with.



Seeing his dog, Striker, shot to death by masked intruders clad in camouflage, Sammy Weaver, 14, fired back in fear for his life. The 4 ft., 11" tall youngster was hit in the arm, then shot in the back as he turned to run for home. He died instantly, killed by an agent of the federal government.

Cradling her 10-month-old daughter in her arms, Vicki Weaver stood in the doorway of her home, mourning her slain son, unaware that she herself had only seconds to live. In an instant a bullet tore into Vicki Weaver's face, blew through her jaw and severed her carotid artery. The bullet was fired from 200 yds. away by an agent of the federal government.

http://land.netonecom.net/tlp/ref/weaver.shtml
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"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*
kathyp
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« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2011, 04:48:35 PM »

Quote
Tell that to the weavers. They tracked and harassed them for months, then activated an action to get it over with.

another admin that acted outside the constitution and their mandate.  same thing in Waco and with the Gonzales kid.  i did not excuse those actions either.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
kathyp
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« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2011, 04:51:34 PM »

this is a basic flaw with liberals.  good intentions trump law.  as long as they mean well and are doing it for the good of _____, it's justified.  this is as much true of liberal republicans who ignore the law.
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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

 Alexis de Tocqueville
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« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2011, 06:05:29 PM »

How does the song go: Don't do the crime if you cant do the time.  If you want to play at being a terrorist then play at being punished also.
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« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2011, 06:38:53 PM »

I am not an Obama fan at all.  I am not so convinced that he had all that much to do with it anyway.  Of course he gave his blessing, but that is like a dad taking credit for what his son does on the football field Friday night because he gave the son permission to play.  In my opinion, when a person or people take part, and even instigate the type of crimes that these two did. Then that person or people voluntarily give up any rights afforded to them by the Constitution. 
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yockey5
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« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2011, 07:34:44 PM »

I am not an Obama fan at all.  I am not so convinced that he had all that much to do with it anyway.  Of course he gave his blessing, but that is like a dad taking credit for what his son does on the football field Friday night because he gave the son permission to play.  In my opinion, when a person or people take part, and even instigate the type of crimes that these two did. Then that person or people voluntarily give up any rights afforded to them by the Constitution. 


Exactly.
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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2011, 09:14:04 AM »

This government is SUPPOSED to be governed by the principles set out in the Constitution.  They are to be adhered to for better or worse.  Once you start setting them aside for "special circumstances", it opens the door for further abuses later. You do NOT want to open that door, for it leads to a slippery slope.  This administration, as well as all us ordinary folk, must learn to stand firmly on those principles.  Once we stop doing so, the enemy has won.
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« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2011, 10:15:16 PM »

The oath of office for all commissioned officers of the military and by definition the Commander-in-Chief reads, in part, "to protect the constitution and the United States of America from all enemies, foreign and domestic." Any other questions? They did good! They should keep doing good!
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BlevinsBees
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« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2011, 03:42:43 AM »

This isn't some criminal case that a DA presents to a grand jury, we're at war. When you're at war,
YOU KILL THE ENEMY! Good job President Obama!!!
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